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Two Footed Stance? - Page 2

post #31 of 54
I try to keep my skis a little farther apart in crud for just that reason. When a ski deflects from a chunk of ice or crust, I don't want it comming in contact with the other one thus increasing the chance of it going under the non deflecting ski. Kind of the opposite of your last paragraph. I've had more success this way especially in windblownslab.
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
I try to keep my skis a little farther apart in crud for just that reason. When a ski deflects from a chunk of ice or crust, I don't want it comming in contact with the other one thus increasing the chance of it going under the non deflecting ski. Kind of the opposite of your last paragraph. I've had more success this way especially in windblownslab.
Windblown slab is not crud. (shrug)
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Windblown slab is not crud. (shrug)
It ain't powder either.

my bad
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
It makes one wonder that if by saying "two footed stance" someone really meant "independent leg action" why they didn't just call it "independent leg action" in the first place.
If the actual meaning of that concept was/is independent leg action, then its a great concept and its quite unfortunate that so many teachers took it the wrong way to mean 50/50 weighting. Because many DID take it that way and in some places STILL ARE teaching it. "Independent leg action" is a much better way of expressing this idea, without compromising the correct weighting principles.

Once upon a time there were a large number of recreational skiers trying to ski with their feet locked together, quite literally, with very little independent action between the legs, if any. Perhaps the two footed concept was intended to get people away from that mindset. I know many many people that in the 80's thought the ultimate best way to ski was with your feet locked together....and skied that way....WITH STYLE. I'm not talking about racers here, only recreational skiers. I would dare say that at that time and place...the two footed tag line was probably functional for the purpose it served, which was to get people to start thinking about their two independent feet.

For whatever the reason, though, I think the two-footed concept may be responsible for longer term misunderstanding about weighting issues. I think the ski instruction world is still climbing itself out of that quagmire.
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Of course both skis are actively tipping, turning and managing pressure in some way. --Borntoski
In my experience, both feet working together in harmony is not a given in many people's skiing.
post #36 of 54
I NEVER was under the impression that PSIA advocated a 50/50 weighted stance, although I have often heard it alleged. I think it's a canard.
post #37 of 54
I can't speak for your neck of the woods. But in my neck of the woods its rampant. Hell...right here in Epic is rampant. Cmon Nolo....I know you can see it better than that.
post #38 of 54
Sorry, BTS, I don't know which you are saying is rampant, both feet working harmoniously or equally weighting the skis?
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Windblown slab is not crud. (shrug)
I'd seen plenty of windblown slab that is 'cruddy'. What is crud anyway?
post #40 of 54
What is RAMPANT is misunderstanding of this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
or equally weighting the skis?
post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I'd seen plenty of windblown slab that is 'cruddy'. What is crud anyway?
Crud is the stuff you have to ski to get to the good stuff.
post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I'd seen plenty of windblown slab that is 'cruddy'. What is crud anyway?
crud is commonly understood to mean cut up powder with completely uneven flotation characteristics. Usually seen towards the end of the day after a dump(or by 10am in some parts).

Does Bob's dictionary have this defined? As soon as you start talking about "crust" that is a whole new dimension.

Windblown slab is more like crust. There is nothing about skiing crust that equates to skiing powder or crud.
post #43 of 54
Breakable crust is crud.

Back East here, crud in man made groomed in with natural filled with ice chunks the consistancy of hockey pucks known as "death cookies"
post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Crud is the stuff you have to ski to get to the good stuff.
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
What is crud anyway?
The stuff you have to ski after I poach your line of fresh!
post #46 of 54
By the way, since I was the first person to use the word "crud" in this thread, I get to define what it means for this thread. It means what I said. ;-)
post #47 of 54
Hey I just passed 1000 posts.
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Hey I just passed 1000 posts.
Congrats bts683
post #49 of 54
Back to the topic.

Now, breakable crust is a condition that a two footed equal weighted stance is critical, stance with some separation is helpful also.
post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
Heluva, when shaped skis came on the scene there was a shake-up in thinking about ski technique all across the board, not just with PSIA. What you say PSIA says does not correspond to what PSIA Team members said in Skiing Concepts (2005) :
I see the concept of two-footedness in the first bullet point in that outline.
Thanks nolo! By the way crud is the best!!! Ski it two footed!
post #51 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
Heluva, when shaped skis came on the scene there was a shake-up in thinking about ski technique all across the board, not just with PSIA. What you say PSIA says does not correspond to what PSIA Team members said in Skiing Concepts (2005) :
I see the concept of two-footedness in the first bullet point in that outline.
I see using both feet. That's far from "two-footed".

Why is it necessary to subvert the concept from the skiing concepts by using more even jargon (ie two-footed)? Especially when that is an incorrect term.
post #52 of 54
Quote:
Why is it necessary to subvert the concept from the skiing concepts by using more even jargon (ie two-footed)? Especially when that is an incorrect term.
I was not trying to subvert but to point out that PSIA publications do not speak of two-footedness per se, as Heluva had suggested. I added my interpretation that the first bullet of the PSIA Skiing Concepts document may be read as a dictum to use both feet, which is what I understand two-footed to mean.

I don't think two-footed is a valuable term at all, BigE. It is too open to interpretation, as this thread demonstrates. I love the bullet point in the Skiing Concepts:

Quote:
ยท The skier is in balance when they can have a positive, selective effect on any of the skills with either leg at any time.
post #53 of 54
Thread Starter 
I've started another thread on that bullet: Balance defined

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...800#post766800
post #54 of 54
I like 2 footed skiing. I can't get 50/50 and don't think that it is even appropriate in most conditions. But trying to be more 2 footed has helped my skiing a lot. I now have a stronger inside half, more simultanios edge release/engagment, and better angulation. I've also lost my lead change and most of my up and down movement. Lateral movments are more efficient and therefor arguably better. Part of being able to make these changes involved stepping down in ski length. On the longer ski I was required to put more pressure on the outside ski to make it perform. With the shorter ski I can pressure both. I was very surpised to learn what a difference 10cm can make. It was hard for me to change my opionons even in the face of the evidence. Contrary to an earlier post, good tele skiers do put close to the same pressure on both skis in nearly every condition. I think that its hard to get too much pressure on the back ski. I see alpine skiers all the time who can ski quite effectivly on tele gear, but don't pressure the back leg at all. They ussually can't "tele" off piste or in deep snow, or choose to do parallel on tele gear. I was always a bit skeptical of PSIA, now I am forced to admit that drinking the cool aid has made me better. I like the idea of fundamental skiing, but dissagre with the idea that we all need to be making exactly the same type of turn. One of the best skiers in my hiring clinic last year used lead change, up and down unweighting, and a dominant outside ski. Why do people swing their arms when they ski... Answer... because it works. I don't think its the best ie most effiecinet way. Skiings about having fun and we are all probably full of bunk.
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