New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Another pathetic question

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
What is the angle between your knees and your butt? 90 degrees?

This may be somewhat of a general of a question - and incorrect terminology - but I think I found a sweet spot last year when I squatted and lowered my butt .... Felt like I could float better over bumps and increase my edges... I am not talking bumps or powder - just front side crusing groomers, etc

I am a level 6/7 so forgive me if this makes no sense...

Thanks

NNN
post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by triplenet View Post
What is the angle between your knees and your butt? 90 degrees?

This may be somewhat of a general of a question - and incorrect terminology - but I think I found a sweet spot last year when I squatted and lowered my butt .... Felt like I could float better over bumps and increase my edges... I am not talking bumps or powder - just front side crusing groomers, etc

I am a level 6/7 so forgive me if this makes no sense...

Thanks

NNN
There is no static angle that should be employed. There is a thread on the concept of "stacking", using the skeletal structure as much as possible to offset the forces encountered while in motion skiing. Depending on the type turn, speed, snow condition, terrain, a skier would bias more or less from skeletal stacking to muscular suspension.

In the case where you take a 90 degree angle the skier would put so much load on his/her quads that those muscles would go quickly to lactic pooling in a short period of high intensity skiing (bump run, ski racing or heavy crud).

A skier with less angle will allow the muscles to be relaxed supported by their "structure" and able to fire when needed, not be in a constant condition of "co-constriction" or worse contraction, where a single muscle group is doing all the work (the case with a 90 degree angle taking the hamstrings out of the equation).

Balance, fluidity and power would all be adversely affected by a static knee to hip angle of such a drastic degree.

Stand tall, ski strong
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Understood

Thanks
post #4 of 13
90 degrees, makes my thighs burn just thinking about it.
post #5 of 13
Just keep the angle between your but and knee such that the middle of your feet are in line with the direction gravity and momentum are pulling your hips and you are as straight as needed to support the force and as bent as needed to absorb terrain and manage ski pressure.
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by triplenet View Post
What is the angle between your knees and your butt? 90 degrees?

This may be somewhat of a general of a question - and incorrect terminology - but I think I found a sweet spot last year when I squatted and lowered my butt .... Felt like I could float better over bumps and increase my edges... I am not talking bumps or powder - just front side crusing groomers, etc

I am a level 6/7 so forgive me if this makes no sense...

Thanks

NNN
Try and walk around the room like that. Are you tired yet? Does your legs burn? Now stand up and do it. Better A.-----------Wigs
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Perfect answers All makes sense now...

Maybe I was standing too tall and when I went into a more athletic stance and it just felt lower...

Now if I can just remember all the forum information when I get back out there I just may become the skier I always wanted to be
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by triplenet View Post
Perfect answers All makes sense now...

Maybe I was standing too tall and when I went into a more athletic stance and it just felt lower...

Now if I can just remember all the forum information when I get back out there I just may become the skier I always wanted to be

You can, but I always say you can never stand too tall.---Wigs
post #9 of 13
An important point to consider is a skier does not stay in any one position, but flexes and extends during the course of a turn. It may be that the angle between hip and knee approaches 90 degrees for an instant, sometimes even greater if you're sucking up a Volkswagen sized bump with your knees.
post #10 of 13
While it may feel like you are bending at 90 degrees, you probably aren't. However, a lower stance provides some benefit. Although it does fatigue the muscles faster. Being lower allows for faster, more powerful responses to unseen terrain/condition variations. I don't necessarily like the idea of saying you can never stand too tall (with all respect in the world to Wigs) for a couple of reasons. (FYI, I lived in a too-tall stance for a LONG time, it made progressing very difficult). The word "stand" implies being static, as well as possibly being too tall at the wrong part of the turn. I like the idea that there are certain parts of the turn where you can't be too "long" (or extended). You need to concentrate on being dynamic and extending and flexing at various parts of the turn.

The feeling you got of being lower, is probably that feeling of being lower when you are transitioning from one turn to the next. A huge benefit to this "position", is that it allows much better ski/snow pressure at the top of the next turn because you can extend to pressure the skis. Therefore, the top half of the turn isn't all washed out and skidded, but rather, guided and controlled. That allows for much better speed and direction control through the later parts of the turn.

Efficient skiing is one thing, but it can be taken too far to the extreme, so as to make you more unstable and less in control. Skiing really tall and skeletal is definitely less fatiguing, but it at also less dynamic and offensive (we don't want to ski defensively)

I say play around with the lower stance. It may take some getting used to, but if you had a trained eye watch you, it's probably not 90 degrees or even too low.
post #11 of 13
90 degrees at the knee is probably the worst stance you can adopt. This is the position where the knee is the most unstable. I would not recommend this as a "home base" position.

Now for sure, you can ski simple terrain standing almost straight up, but I would not consider that a "ready" position.

If any unique angle has to be given, I suggest the 110-120 degree range is appropriate for dynamic skiing. This angle allows for the most force to be generated through extension -- you do extend from here when skiing --and it gives you a 30 degrees of flexion to release or absorb terrain defects.

Deeper compromises your depth of flexion and power in extension.
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH View Post
While it may feel like you are bending at 90 degrees, you probably aren't. However, a lower stance provides some benefit. Although it does fatigue the muscles faster. Being lower allows for faster, more powerful responses to unseen terrain/condition variations. I don't necessarily like the idea of saying you can never stand too tall (with all respect in the world to Wigs) for a couple of reasons. (FYI, I lived in a too-tall stance for a LONG time, it made progressing very difficult). The word "stand" implies being static, as well as possibly being too tall at the wrong part of the turn. I like the idea that there are certain parts of the turn where you can't be too "long" (or extended). You need to concentrate on being dynamic and extending and flexing at various parts of the turn.

The feeling you got of being lower, is probably that feeling of being lower when you are transitioning from one turn to the next. A huge benefit to this "position", is that it allows much better ski/snow pressure at the top of the next turn because you can extend to pressure the skis. Therefore, the top half of the turn isn't all washed out and skidded, but rather, guided and controlled. That allows for much better speed and direction control through the later parts of the turn.

Efficient skiing is one thing, but it can be taken too far to the extreme, so as to make you more unstable and less in control. Skiing really tall and skeletal is definitely less fatiguing, but it at also less dynamic and offensive (we don't want to ski defensively)

I say play around with the lower stance. It may take some getting used to, but if you had a trained eye watch you, it's probably not 90 degrees or even too low.
...And you are correct in saying so, John. I do believe there needs to be some give and take when skiing. Like a cars suspension, you need to smooth out the bumps in the road. I was referring more to what it sounded like Triplenet was trying to do, and the question was, is this right? When I made the statement, “you can never stand too tall", maybe I should have defined that a little better. In most cases of observation, it is pretty noticeable that most students that I work with are not standing tall enough, (hips behind the heels). I like your reference to the use of "longer" The use of the reference “longer” is better because now we can talk about the whole turn and where one would want to be longer. Just standing tall is static as you said, and might be perceived as when one is just standing there.

This I believe, leads to a much more in depth discussion on when and where to be long. I think that we should try to get Triplenet out of the back seat first and standing over the feet. Then move to where should I be long part of it. But again, I agree 100% on your above post and I'm sure that it will help Triplenet in the long run.-------Wigs
post #13 of 13
Keep in mind that there should be no positions in skiing, just movements. The movement in bumps should be absorption turns where you absorb the crest of the bump by retracting both knees--pull them up toward your chest, then extend on the way down to the next crest and absorb at the crest...actually a bit early so you're in the absorption motion when you arrive at the crest.

If you get your weight back on your heels, you're doomed. To prevent this, as you ski off each bump crest, pull both feet back strongly. This is done at the time the feet are light just as the old turn is ending and the new turn is starting. Keep your fore/aft balance by pulling back on the inside leg all the time through the turn. During the absorption with your knees pulled up toward your chest, you'll be temporarily in the back seat. That's the way we bend. That's OK, 'cuz you're pulling your feet backward behind your hips as you start down the next face. Keep in mind that we only have control skiing when the ski tips are in contact with the snow. Pull those feet back strongly as you ski off the crest.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching