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Preventing Assault and Battery on the Mtn. - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiingman View Post
I've seen some real hostile d-bags at Alta, but more of the young core dude-brah sort.
Why didn't you introduce yourself? I coulda showed you some killer stashes.

Seriousely, tho - at least for the young punk bro-brah contingent - all you have to do is stare at them really intensely and they back off. Most of them talk really good smack, but they don't know what to do when someone calls them on it. That or ignore them. Also, you have to realise that some of the hostility (at least the verbal hostility) is well earned, especially in the case of zorros and low traverse cutters.
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Also, you have to realise that some of the hostility (at least the verbal hostility) is well earned, especially in the case of zorros and low traverse cutters.
Yeah I can see where they are coming from sometimes for sure...much more so than the coke snorting frat boy types elsewhere.
post #33 of 45
Good alternative icanseeformile(andmiles), I'll keep it in mind.
post #34 of 45
I have never had a confrontation at a resort that was anywhere close to escalating to a physical level. However, I have exchanged hostile words a number of times.


I try not to be too rude about it, but sometimes people need a heads up that what they are doing is not courteous, polite, or most importantly, safe.

One situation that seems to happen again and again, is people stopping around blind corners of winding traverses. This is really common at Bridger. Its not the end of the world, I know, but its pretty annoying. You are trying to keep your speed up for the rest of the traverse, and you round a corner, to see three or more people completely blocking your way. You have to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting them, hike above them, and then continue on. I try not to sound too angry, but I will always say something along the lines of "Thats not the best place to stand guys".




A couple of seasons ago at Aspen, I had been eying a cliff that was just a few hundred yards outside the ski area boundaries. Now I'm not much of a hucker. Although I enjoy it, and enjoy trying to go bigger/more technical, I am honestly just too scared to go very big. At the time, this would have been the very biggest cliff I'd ever hit. The landing was a tiny bit flat, and there was no room to ditch your speed afterwards. You had to land perfectly, and then point it out through a break in the trees. Because of this, I was waiting for the snow in the landing to get nice and deep.

Well one day I was just about feeling ready. I was pretty scared, and convinced myself, that since there was more snow forcasted for the next couple days, I would wait and see if the landing got any better.

I come back after we'd gotten 6"-1', and was not nervous or afraid at all. I was feeling great, and knew the landing would be great. Well I roll up to the take off, and peer over, planning on just taking one look, hiking up a few feet, then pointing it off.

I look over, and I see two people, who looked to me to be "gapers" traversing directly through the landing. Now, while I think that everyone has just as much right to fresh snow as anyone else up there, theres no harm in being considerate. My knee jerk reaction was to yell at them for traversing through my landing, which I did. They responded by saying that they didn't realize it was a landing.

It then dawned on me, that they were most likely traversing, in hopes of finding something easier and maybe getting back to a groomed/heavily traveled run. What I don't think they realized, is that they were heading into an area that you would either have to hike out of to get back to the resort (if you knew where you were going) or find your way through the dense trees at lower elevations down to the valley floor, and find your way across a river. I had not seen any avy gear, and they did not look to have a clue where they were headed, so I figured I'd better head after them.

I skied around the cliff, caught up to them, and asked where they were headed. I was told not to worry about it. I explained to them what they were getting into. I told them that, even if it was their intention to go that way, there was a better entry point that would give them more good powder skiing before the trees got nasty.

They responded by cursing at me and then continuing their traverse. I can only assume that they followed my advice after I'd left because I never heard anything about anyone getting lost.


The moral of the story, is that sometimes people need wake up call, whether they want it or not. If it is necessary that I be thought of as rude and obnoxious in order for them to get the picture, so be it. Sometimes its just common courtesy, but sometimes its a matter of safety.
post #35 of 45
I would never start a fight on the hill, but I will be a willing participant in case of attack.. Still waiting for that to happen after 21 years.
size helps I guess.. I'm 6'4" 230
post #36 of 45
I was skiiing at the bottom of Hellfire, which is kind of a dipsy-doodle run out area with trees in the middle of the trail (would never happen back where I come from!) and a sudden dip for a creek bed. All of a sudden, right before the creek bed, where the trail is maybe 10-12 feet wide, I am on the far right of the trail because I am trying to avoid a zigzagging beginner, some snowboarder cuts between me and a tree that is at the right edge of the trail. There was maybe 18-24 inches between me and this tree, followed by this sudden dip for the creek. He came out of nowhere and didn't warn me at all that he was there. Scared the hell out of me.

I followed him to the chair and ripped into him about making SOME kind of warning noise or "on your right" or SOMETHING, because what if I hadn't been about to head back to the left a bit, what if I had eased just a few inches more toward that tree? He was kind of stupified and just stared at me and I jumped ahead of him on the lift before he recovered his shock from some old bat screaming at him.

I come from the generation that believes in letting you know that I am on the trail with you OR giving you a really wide berth. I think this should somehow be part of the responsibility code or skier's etiquette training. When I was back East it wasn't an issue, the snow was always LOUD snow. Here it rarely is and the trails are normally quite empty, so you get sort of complacent about the likelihood of people sneaking up on you.
post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Or say if someone spits on my face, can I legally give him a left hook to the side of the head? If I do and he dies do I get to move into the big house? Inquiring minds want to know.
Yes, and yes.

Yes, you can give him a left hook and still keep your lift ticket, as long as he lives.

And yes, you get to move into the big house if he dies.

That's why you really need to think twice about that first left hook.
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
I skied around the cliff, caught up to them, and asked where they were headed. I was told not to worry about it. I explained to them what they were getting into. I told them that, even if it was their intention to go that way, there was a better entry point that would give them more good powder skiing before the trees got nasty.

They responded by cursing at me and then continuing their traverse.
I love those types. Contrary to what some here think, I hardly ever yell at dopes for stuff like cutting low traverses or other breaches in conduct. I usually just shake my head and hope there is such a thing as karma. Many's the time I've politely asked somebody if I could scoot by them on a traverse and they told me to f#*^off or said "ok, toughguy, f#*^ing go ahead!!". Gee - sorry you're such a gaper, pal.:

I've heard plenty of yelling and intimidation, and I have been the yeller from time to time, but I have yet to see any type of physical violence. Actually I saw a fight break out between a lifty and a skier (who was an off-duty lifty), but that wasn't related to any kind of percieved missconduct on the mountain.
post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Many's the time I've politely asked somebody if I could scoot by them on a traverse and they told me to f#*^off or said "ok, toughguy, f#*^ing go ahead!!". Gee - sorry you're such a gaper, pal.:
Yah, that is an odd one. You politely say you are coming by and people take it as if you have criticized their manhood. WTF is so hard to understand about not wanting to slow down on a traverse? These people are probably the same jerks who obviously know how to ski (as opposed to those who don't have a choice) and are making turns across the entire cat road and get pissed when I roll by them a foot away, as if its my fault that them using the entire road makes it difficult for me to respect their space.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by at_nyc View Post
Yes, and yes.

Yes, you can give him a left hook and still keep your lift ticket, as long as he lives.

And yes, you get to move into the big house if he dies.

That's why you really need to think twice about that first left hook.
Figures. Consequences over intentions, laws made by people with the moral mentality of a 4-year old. Whether or not I get off Scot-free depends on how thick his skull and neck are instead of my intentions and actions. Oh well, I'm not likely to hit anyone (must try to remember to hit the jaw instead of the side of the head, just in case).
post #41 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles) View Post
I am NOT iskitoofast4u, but I have slept at an Holiday Inn Express.

this is what I would (and have done) do: if you can ski good enough to cut someone off, you can ski good enough to follow them to the lift. Go to the front of the line, tell the liftie to call patrol to grab the perp. The liftie will NOT say anything to the perp, or stop them; what they will do is stop the lift after that person gets on the chair, and hold them between stations until patrol gets on the scene (at the top). The liftie will relay the chair number to patrol, when that chairs gets to the top, patrol will take that person (or persons) aside, and take appropriate action. Nice, neat, and you won't get arrested for A&B or get your ticket clipped.
Thanks, icansee...you saved me the effort of typing out that exact response! I'll just add that it's not imperative you find a ski patroller - any on-mountain employee will do; lifties are especially helpful thanks to their proximity to the phone and obvious ability to hold up the perp once they've been seated on a chair.

Canadianskier - In reference to your comment about children - I'm not yet a parent, but I do teach the smallest skiers and boarders on the hill (2-7 y.o's). Due to this, I'm very attuned to the protective instinct a parent has while skiing with their children. Nevertheless, confrontation and the potential violence that may ensue is never the answer.
post #42 of 45
iskitoofast4u - There is a huge range of perspectives on this issue, and I don’t believe that there is a simple “right” answer given that we are dealing with complex social behavior. Since I last posted, I had a chance to chat with a friend who is the head of the ski school at a local hill, a ski patroller, a ski coach and a couple of ex-ski instructors. Similar to this thread, I got different answers of what to do in the situation that I described. All said that saying something to a jerk was probably warranted. Of course, no one advocated violence, but some of the answers were more aggressive than what I did (recall, skiing in front of a boarder who hit me from behind to stop him so I could have my say).

After considering this issue for a bit, I have to say that I disagree with you about avoiding saying something and not confronting a person who has blatant disregard for the welfare of others. Saying something can be done without being threatening or belittling, but can still get the meaning across. To not say anything gives an implicit approval of inappropriate behavior that puts others at risk, and to me, that is not OK.

I agree that violence should be avoided, and simply skiing away is also a reasonable option if it appears that the situation could escalate. However, following someone down to a lift and informing the lifty seems awkward and quite difficulty to actually do, especially if there are long lift lines, but it is still an option. The areas where I ski are rather large and following someone down could also be construed as hostile. (The ski patroller told me about a situation wherein a skier told a lifty about being nailed and the perp figured out what was happening, took off his skis, and hit the guy that had “informed.”)

Regardless of our opinions on this, reading this thread was an interesting exercise in ethical decision making, which I think was the intent of the initial post.
post #43 of 45
For all it's supposed charm, Alta is the only place I've been where people are routinely rude on the traverses.
post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
For all it's supposed charm, Alta is the only place I've been where people are routinely rude on the traverses.
I think you just need to "get over it".
post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post
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After considering this issue for a bit, I have to say that I disagree with you about avoiding saying something and not confronting a person who has blatant disregard for the welfare of others. Saying something can be done without being threatening or belittling, but can still get the meaning across. To not say anything gives an implicit approval of inappropriate behavior that puts others at risk, and to me, that is not OK.
I guess I wasn't specific enough in my first response. I see nothing wrong with politely speaking with someone that's run into you, in fact, if done properly, it's a service to the sport. What I was arguing against was the more aggressive forms of confrontation that many of the posters in this thread were advocating.

I've never hit anyone myself, but like I said, I've been flat out tagged on a number of occasions. Fortunately, I've never been hurt. I'll always take the opportunity to educate those that run into me, but I make sure to do it in a non-threatening manner. I don't consider cutting someone off on the way down to be non-threatening. My main point was if a situation needs to be addressed in a more serious manner than a friendly, "Hey, it's your responsibility to avoid people below you on the trail" type of comment, you're going to be better off alerting a mountain employee than by going vigilante.
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