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Nordica Doberman WC100 Boots, OK for adult racer?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I need some advice regarding Nordica Doberman WC100 boots (2004 - 2005). The boots were described as a junior boot for elite younger racers that also work well for masters racers. I bought a pair for Business/beer league, Masters, Nastar Racing. I am 51yrs old, 5'11", and fairly light at 165lbs. I wanted a race fit but with a softer flex for my weight and ability. I do OK but am not a top racer (platimun NASTAR, second in my age group in Teamski business league last year). I had been using my Salomon X-Wave 10 (size 25.5) boots but they have over 120 days on them and are getting old. I have a small foot also. The worry with the Nordica boots I have is that when I got them home I realized that the front cuff was a good 1.5 inches lower on my shin. Is the low cuff going to be a problem? If I need to return them what else should I look at?

Thanks
post #2 of 16
It really comes down to preference. You're going from Salomons, which have a relatively high cuff, to Nordicas, a pretty low boot. I personally prefer a lower cuff because it allows me a better feel of my ankles, but I'm also 5'8". I use the WC 150, but the WC 100 is dimensionally the same. I find the Salomons too high for my tastes. So the Nordicas may take some getting used to, or they may not be for you, but there are people your height using them.

If you do end up returning the Nordicas in favour of something higher, check out the Salomon Falcon 10 or Race. They have possibly the most ergonomic fit for a low-volume boot, but the cuff height will be like what you're used to. In a plug boot, check out the Lange WC 150 or the Rossignol equivalent in a ZB/ZB flex. They come up pretty high, although I found the fit weird out of the box. The instep will be higher than the Nordicas.
post #3 of 16
The cuff on the WC100 may be shorter than the cuff on the WC150, primarily because the boot is for juniors or Women.
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by NordtheBarbarian View Post
The cuff on the WC100 may be shorter than the cuff on the WC150, primarily because the boot is for juniors or Women.
That is correct. I have both the 150 and the 100 (see the for sale section for a great deal) and the 100 is a bit lower cuff ~ 0.75-1inch IIRC. Still the same Dobie stance etc that I like and can't say i really noticed the height difference but a bit softer than I like for a race boot at ~ 170#.
post #5 of 16
I own a pair of Dobermann WC XS. It is a flex rated boot at 100. It has a cut up Dobermann 150 lower shell and the women's/junior's upper cuff. I weigh about 165 to 170 pounds depending on if I ate a resort breakfast burrito or not.

What it comes down to is personal preference. I like a softer boot. I feel that it is supportive enough for me to flex a Nordica GSR or SLR skis. In regards to the lower cuff, I like it. I have large calf muscles.

I am not sure what your footshape is like, but if you like the softer flex, look at the Atomic CS100, Lange WC 120, Head Raptor 120. Otherwise, I feel DC made some good suggestions.

Dennis
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for the information. In response to the last post, I have a small foot over all for my height (7.5 - 8 US street shoe). My foot is on the wider side (D width, I think) and a higher than average instep. Larry the boot fitter in Boulder who fitted my Salomon X-Wave 10 boots said I had a perfect foot for the X-Wave 10s in a 25.5 (he did not fit the Dobermans). Should I have tried the Doberman 130 or the Lange 120? I was only looking at previous years sale boots and they did not have Salomons small enough. The guy at Boulder Ski Deals where I bought the boots really likes the Doberman WC100 and they didn't feel too bad out of the box (they may need some work if I keep them). I have always skied with boots with higher cuffs but from what you guys are saying it is really a matter of preference. I was worried about stability and whether the extra torque lower on my shin with a lower cuff was an injury risk.
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
My wife may disown me, but I bought yet another pair of boots. Given my past record with ski purchases it may not be over yet. This time I found a pair of last years Technica Diablo Race 110 in a 25.5 that seem to fit real well. Any comments on ther relative merits of the Doberman WC100 vs the Technica Race 110? I didn't try the Lange Comp 120 or the Doberman Pro 130 but I might...
post #8 of 16
Congratulations on your purchase! I am not surprised that the Diablo Race Pros fit real well. I tried on the 130/110 the same size you got. IMO, the Diablo lower shell is great for C-D wide feet with mid to higher instep.

You said nothing about the stance geometry you prefer but since you got the 110 i assume that you prefer a flatter ramp angle with a fair amount of forward lean.

I did not try the Dobie WC 100 but i have a friend who has the Pro 100. This boot (the Pro) has a lower cuff just like the WC model. I measured the difference in height between the cuff of the Pro 100 and Race 110. I don't recall the exact number but, if memory serves me right, i think that the Pro 100 was 3 cm lower than the Race 110.

As the other members have said, it comes down to preference. If you skied boots with a high cuff you may find that the WC's cuff is a bit low. Trying it on and skiing the boot are two very different things. At home you may think that it will allow good lateral and rear support but you never know what will happen on snow. Do not forget that you bought it for racing so the need for good support is even greater.

There are some differences between the Race 110 and WC 100, other than the cuff height.
Stance geometry is different. The Nordica has more ramp and less forward lean. The Tecnica has less ramp and more forward lean.
The liners are different. The WC 100 has a race liner. It is the same as the WC 150 lace-up minus the laces. It is thin and holds the foot well. The 110 has a very different liner. It is thicker, uses softer materials and can pack out to some degree. It is a bit cushy for racing. That's why i recommend a thinner and firmer liner for racing. It will work well if the boot fits well. I am using the Lange WC 150 race liner in my Hinged XT-Icon. This liner has more padding in the ankle/heel area than the WC 150 lace-up and holds my foot very well. Mid and fore foot it is the same thickness as the WC 150 liner. Tecnica makes a copy of the WC 150 liner. It is the liner that comes in the Diablo plug. Same construction but different colors.
post #9 of 16
It amazing what a good boot fitter can do. Your Dobie 100's with the proper liner and some work done on the tongue can be a very good GS boot, extremely good speed boot but might not give you enough fore impulse to be suitable for slalom, especially in harder conditions.

That said, the 100 is a softer boot and potentially too soft if you are an aggressive racer. I have not seen any data regarding injury based on lower versus higher cuffs based on skier's height, weight, ability or discipline, however.

But before you use them as flower pots, have you boot fitter get you setup properly, canted, riser plates and ski them. You might be surprised how well they work for the type of racing you are doing.

Canted properly with you 5 Mil Risers you'll get plenty of lateral response and very input to the ski. You may also find that your balance/feel is enhanced with the lower cuff, BTW.

Unfortunately this is a great question for PCSB aka Brent Amsbury from MSRT. He's in Europe at the moment but I'll shoot him this thread and see if he can chime in while hanging out in Budapest or where ever if his at the moment.
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for the help. I ended up keeping the Technica Diablo Race Pro 110 boots after talking with Larry here in Boulder. He fitted them with some custom insoles and a little work and thinks they will work well for me. I can't wait to try them out on some gates. Race training starts the first week in November at A-Basin and I hope to be there. Now if I can only get in better shape...
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcahill View Post
Thanks again for the help. I ended up keeping the Technica Diablo Race Pro 110 boots after talking with Larry here in Boulder. He fitted them with some custom insoles and a little work and thinks they will work well for me. I can't wait to try them out on some gates. Race training starts the first week in November at A-Basin and I hope to be there. Now if I can only get in better shape...
Send my regards to my buddy Kevin Ward, I'm sure he'll be there first day Enjoy the new boots, good choice conferring with your fitter
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcahill View Post
I ended up keeping the Technica Diablo Race Pro 110
Is that the '07 model or '08? It seems that there is a difference between the '07 110 and '08 offering.
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
The ones I bought were last year's. I don't know what they changed for this year.
post #14 of 16
If the info from the Tecnica Europe website is correct, the Race 110 will change for 2008. I noticed that there is no info in this on Tecnica USA website. And i am not talking about the minor cosmetic changes. Tecnica Europe claims that the 2008 Race 110 will feature transparent polyester high performance material for the shell and cuff. If i remember correctly, the 2007 Race 110 features polyether HP material.
The 2008 Race 130 features transparent polyether, so no changes here.
I noticed that there is another boot which features polyester shell and cuff. This boot is the Diablo Pro, a new boot in their line. It appears that both the 110 and Pro feature the same plastic for the shell and cuff.

I found some info on the differences between polyether and polyester. Maybe some of you guys know more about them but this is how i see them.
Polyether:
- has good temp. resistance. It will not be affected by temp. changes as much as polyester;
- has low temperature flexibility.

Polyester:
- is not temp. resistant like polyether; It will stiffen up in the cold more than polyether will;
- vibratory dampening. : It means that it dampens vibrations. It will be more forgiving than polyester. So i can expect less snow feel with polyester.

It appears that you have a boot which has more snow feel and is more temp. resistant than the '08 model, the latter being is more forgiving.
post #15 of 16
If you followed the discussion from this thread, you would know that someone has made an error on the Diablo 110 specs. Apparently, the boot features PU ether for 2008. Your boot is the same as the 2008 model minus the minor cosmetic changes.
There is a boot that features PU ester in the Diablo line though... that boot is the Pro and the differences i stated between PU ester and ether are correct.
post #16 of 16
RCahill,

I'm a little late hear on the reply, but I think your choice of the Tecnica Diablo 110 was much better than the Dobermann 100. Not that the Dobie 100 is a bad boot, but that your awareness of the upper cuff being significantly lower than an adult oriented could have had a detrimental effect on your skiing.
Junior boots are designed for shorter tibias, and unless they are used by small and very light weight adults, they just don't provide sufficient shin pressure distribution.
Even thought the boot was rated at 100, the boot would very likely felt like a 70 or 80 flex due to the lower cuff.

Good choice on the Tecnica, I think you'll be very happy.

Brent
Park City Ski Boot
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