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how many times can you drill skis for bindings?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Seems to me that I have read somewhere that it is not advisable to drill skis more than 3x for bindings. Is this a hard and fast rule. The reason I ask is that I have a pair of skis that I will be wanting to sell that have been drilled 2x. I had the second drilling done by a shop and the original holes were plugged. Will the fact that the new purchaser may have to redrill affect my ability to sell these skis?:

Mark
post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkevenson View Post
Seems to me that I have read somewhere that it is not advisable to drill skis more than 3x for bindings. Is this a hard and fast rule. The reason I ask is that I have a pair of skis that I will be wanting to sell that have been drilled 2x. I had the second drilling done by a shop and the original holes were plugged. Will the fact that the new purchaser may have to redrill affect my ability to sell these skis?:

Mark

As far as "how many times", that depends on the construction of the ski, condition of the ski and proximity of the holes in relation to each other and where the new ones will be.

As for value, it greatly diminishes value of the ski the more times it's been drilled...TGR had a fairly accurate way of calculating a ski's value based upon how many times the ski's have been drilled.

50% of current selling price (not MSRP)
-10% per year old
-10% per times drilled, per core shot, per delam...etc
-10% per marker binding attatched
+10-30% for Rare/High-demand item
post #3 of 26
I can see where you can put DIFFERENT bindings on each time since you're drilling new holes and plugging old holes and more than likely they usually don't line up.

But I have a pair of K2's which originally had used Salomon bindings on them. The toepiece needing to be constantly adjusted became an issue, so this past February I replaced them with new Markers (I think, but not the point of the post). The toepiece of the binding SHEERED OFF the ski in my accident. So, obviously, if they remount them it's going to be in the same spot. Is this something that can be done safely?
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkevenson View Post
Seems to me that I have read somewhere that it is not advisable to drill skis more than 3x for bindings. Is this a hard and fast rule. The reason I ask is that I have a pair of skis that I will be wanting to sell that have been drilled 2x. I had the second drilling done by a shop and the original holes were plugged. Will the fact that the new purchaser may have to redrill affect my ability to sell these skis?:

Mark
Mark, I have sold skis on ebay that were drilled twice. In each case I told the buyer what brand/model bindings had been mounted, what sole size boot they had been mounted for and whether they were mounted on factory center line or not.

I have hold no problems with buyers using this method of disclosure.

3x drilled I would throw away.

Good luck.
post #5 of 26
The safest bet would be to go about -1cm from the original holes (depending on the bindings you can usually just remount the toes and not the heels). This would give you enough seperation from the holes that were torn out...Remember, you have to re-drill both toe pieces.

Depending on what K2 ski you have, and how you ski, you also may want to consider mounting a little forward of the previous mount. It's usually more tolerable to go further back than forward, although K2's generally have the factory line well back.

As for remounting in the original location, you have a couple options...You can epoxy the holes w/steel wool and re-drill, or use helicoils which is usually the strongest option.

P.S. This is in response to sibhusky's question.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrstrat57 View Post

3x drilled I would throw away.




It depends what skis. If they're foam core, with no metal, and soft, yea three times is a lot, but if the buyer is a lighter person, who won't be skiing them very hard, they might work.

Three times for a wood core ski with a lot of metal, is not that bad. I'd feel confident ripping around and hucking on a pair of mojo 103s that were on their fourth mount. As long as the holes don't interfere with each other, you're good.
post #7 of 26
According to the shop that turned a pair of my skis into swiss cheese,(philpug description) you can drill a pair of skis several times without damaging the integrity, as long as the holes are plugged properly.

I'm not so sure, 'bout that. :
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
According to the shop that turned a pair of my skis into swiss cheese,(philpug description) you can drill a pair of skis several times without damaging the integrity, as long as the holes are plugged properly.

I'm not so sure, 'bout that. :
Sounds like some CYA on the part of the shop.:
post #9 of 26
The problem with multiple remounts is real estate, you run out of places to drill holes pretty quick. That's the only real problem, structural integrity isn't a big issue unless something is done very wrong.

You can futz around with heel placement pretty easy, toe pieces need to be where they need to be...that's the monkey wrench in the gears.
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thanks to all for your responses.Since the original drill was for 301mm boots and the 2nd for 330mm, I guess it would be ok if necessary one more time. Good info tho especially when purchasing used skis. Things to think about.
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
The problem with multiple remounts is real estate, you run out of places to drill holes pretty quick. That's the only real problem, structural integrity isn't a big issue unless something is done very wrong.

You can futz around with heel placement pretty easy, toe pieces need to be where they need to be...that's the monkey wrench in the gears.

Except when you land a small air and the ski snaps at the old binding holes in front of the toe piece...This has happened to me, even though the holes were plugged.
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by memosteve View Post
Except when you land a small air and the ski snaps at the old binding holes in front of the toe piece...This has happened to me, even though the holes were plugged.
Were the holes plugged with plastic plugs and not also sealed so water could enter the core and cause degradation over time? Epoxy, gorilla glue, etc, as long they are compatible with the ski core should seal better and could somewhat strengthen the area where the holes were drilled. Any carpenter/DIYer realizes that the bond of epoxies and glues are often stronger than the surrounding materials. But YMMV with skis.

Another plug option is to save your golf tees after you break them on drives and use them with glue as solid hole fillers that can be redrilled. Buy your tees to match your skis' colors.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
I can see where you can put DIFFERENT bindings on each time since you're drilling new holes and plugging old holes and more than likely they usually don't line up.

But I have a pair of K2's which originally had used Salomon bindings on them. The toepiece needing to be constantly adjusted became an issue, so this past February I replaced them with new Markers (I think, but not the point of the post). The toepiece of the binding SHEERED OFF the ski in my accident. So, obviously, if they remount them it's going to be in the same spot. Is this something that can be done safely?
When a binding shears our, or pulls the screws from the core and/or plate, the attachment point is severely weakened. The re-attachment procedure is to use a "helicoil". The damaged holes are drilled to a larger diameter and the helicoil (a threaded, larger diameter anchor) is glued and screwed into the opening. The minding then mounts to the normal size hole or threads in the center of the helicoil. This is normally a very strong repair. They look like this:
post #14 of 26
This redrill/remounting issue always brings up the question of why not a universal mounting standard like the embedded screw insert K2 and others use for their tele skis? (Aside from inherent difficulty associated with herding cats, that is. Mounting plates or risers can be used as the interface between the binding and standard hole pattern.
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
This redrill/remounting issue always brings up the question of why not a universal mounting standard like the embedded screw insert K2 and others use for their tele skis? (Aside from inherent difficulty associated with herding cats, that is. Mounting plates or risers can be used as the interface between the binding and standard hole pattern.
Just like the older Line skis used...The issue(s) with this is that on many applications, most notabley freeride/powder/BC skis, you wouldn't want any lift and extra weight. In addtion, it wouldn't be feasible, at least economically, for a manufacture to carry plates pre-drilled for all available binding hole patterns and for mechanical reliability/safety issues I suscribe to less is more.
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
Were the holes plugged with plastic plugs and not also sealed so water could enter the core and cause degradation over time? Epoxy, gorilla glue, etc, as long they are compatible with the ski core should seal better and could somewhat strengthen the area where the holes were drilled. Any carpenter/DIYer realizes that the bond of epoxies and glues are often stronger than the surrounding materials. But YMMV with skis.

Another plug option is to save your golf tees after you break them on drives and use them with glue as solid hole fillers that can be redrilled. Buy your tees to match your skis' colors.
Yes, the holes were plugged w/plastic inserts and epoxied...It happened on a pair of Authier Targa SL's mounted with Look's (can't remember the exact model, but the rainbow colored ones). I've seen it happen to others as well.

Good idea about the golf tees. I've used wood dowls from the hardware store as well.

I use to do a lot of cabinetry , wood turning, jointing and fine finish restoration (old churchs, wood paneling, etc) and agree that the glue joint can be stronger than the materials being bonded/joined, but you still have to deal with the integral strength of the material itself. When the overall structure/material is compromised, it doesn't matter how strong the joint/bond/filler is...It's still more susceptible to failure than when it was completely intact.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
When a binding shears our, or pulls the screws from the core and/or plate, the attachment point is severely weakened. The re-attachment procedure is to use a "helicoil". The damaged holes are drilled to a larger diameter and the helicoil (a threaded, larger diameter anchor) is glued and screwed into the opening. The minding then mounts to the normal size hole or threads in the center of the helicoil. This is normally a very strong repair. They look like this:

Just as I already suggested...In fact, I've seriously considered drilling/tapping/mounted Helicoils in all my flat ski's so I could just have a couple bindings and swap...I usually use the same type/model binding on all of my flat ski's, so this would save me a lot money.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by memosteve View Post
Just as I already suggested...In fact, I've seriously considered drilling/tapping/mounted Helicoils in all my flat ski's so I could just have a couple bindings and swap...I usually use the same type/model binding on all of my flat ski's, so this would save me a lot money.

I keep thinking I will with my AT/tele skis and bindings. Here's a threaded insert installation thread.

Edit.....just remembered about another binding insert discussion from a couple years ago.
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post

Those are not Helicoils. The pictured items are tap-in inserts which are pounded in with a hammer; usage is quicker and a little easier to deal with compared to Helicoils. Helicoils require the enlarged hole to be rethreaded and the insert is installed with a special tool. Small product differences that achieve the same goal. Engine guys can get picky about this kind of stuff...
post #20 of 26
Yeah, I couldn't find the threaded heli-coil pic. I should have looked harder.
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
Yeah, I couldn't find the threaded heli-coil pic. I should have looked harder.

They kinda almost look like springs.
post #22 of 26

Another install question...

:On a related issue:,

I need to install bindings in existing holes from the prior installation. These holes are clean, the prior owner just wanted to keep his bindings.

I have new bindings, same make & model as the first set and the boot sole length is close enough.

Can I just screw these into the existing holes? Should I use adhesive?

These are Salomon bindings on a pair of '07 Salomon AK Rockets (the foam with wood in-the-core model).

Thanks in advance,

Michael
post #23 of 26
Goin' out on a limb, but I'd use wood glue, epoxy or gorilla glue in the existing holes if they're in good shape. I some prefer locktite. YMMV. (You could go to a wider screw if needed.)

In the event you need to remove screws after using epoxy, and possibly other adhesives, add a little heat with a blower to ease the extraction and minimize 'tear-out'.

One type of Heli-coil:

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrettscv View Post
:On a related issue:,

I need to install bindings in existing holes from the prior installation. These holes are clean, the prior owner just wanted to keep his bindings.

I have new bindings, same make & model as the first set and the boot sole length is close enough.

Can I just screw these into the existing holes? Should I use adhesive?

These are Salomon bindings on a pair of '07 Salomon AK Rockets (the foam with wood in-the-core model).

Thanks in advance,

Michael

Shouldnt be a problem...Use some waterproof wood glue and blow the holes out before you fill with glue and inserting the screws. Use only enough force on the screws to seat them, and the bindings, flush/snug...Then, tighten them about a 1/4 to 1/2 turn more and call it a day.
post #25 of 26
Alpinord wrote:

"In the event you need to remove screws after using epoxy, and possibly other adhesives, add a little heat with a blower to ease the extraction and minimize 'tear-out'."

Heating the screws with a solder gun also works awesome.
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by memosteve View Post
Except when you land a small air and the ski snaps at the old binding holes in front of the toe piece...This has happened to me, even though the holes were plugged.
Fail. I've had that happen with skis with zero extra holes. Both myself and customers. No causal link there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron
Those are not Helicoils. The pictured items are tap-in inserts which are pounded in with a hammer; usage is quicker and a little easier to deal with compared to Helicoils. Helicoils require the enlarged hole to be rethreaded and the insert is installed with a special tool. Small product differences that achieve the same goal. Engine guys can get picky about this kind of stuff...
Indeed. Experience and best practices suggest the threaded insert in the photo is a better solution to this particular problem in most cases anyhow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by memosteve
Then, tighten them about a 1/4 to 1/2 turn more and call it a day.
This kind of brutally inaccurate fastening procedure is a good part of why so many screws pull out in the first place. 1/4 to 1/2 turn could easily be too much, or less likely too little. One part of the problem is that the construction of the mounting area varies wildly while the fastening hardware and advice remains constant. This is probably something that should have been better addressed by the standards folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT
It depends what skis. If they're foam core, with no metal, and soft, yea three times is a lot, but if the buyer is a lighter person, who won't be skiing them very hard, they might work.
Hmm. I have a pair of old floppiest noodle PRs in 185 length with somewhere around thirty holes drilled in them, a substantial portion of which I didn't bother to even plug. I'm about 200-210 and I'm not exactly graceful (removed two different Salomon bindings from said noodles because I couldn't get them to stay on at DIN=12) and I haven't yet managed to break them.

This "too many holes problem" is pretty much pure old wives tale.
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