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07 Prophet 90 for an "all" mountain ski?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Hi, my name is Andrea and I am in the market for some new skis. I currently own 05 Line Assasins which I bought under the assumption that they were an all mountain ski. However, whenever I get the urge to go fast they start chattering like nobody's business, and sometimes one decides to catch an edge and take off. Mind you I have been skiing for 11 years, so the catching the edge isn't because I am a crappy skier. Anyway what I need to know is....is the Prophet 90 all its cracked up to be. I love powder skiing but it seems like you don't get to many powder days so I need something that will also go fast on the hard packed/groomed, and that could handle some moguls every once and a while. Oh and that doesn't try to buck me off like my Assasins. I looked at the Prophet 80 and they claim to be a stiffer ski, but does anyone know how they handle in powder? Ok long post...but I need some good opinions.
post #2 of 12
Twin tips in general will have a short running surface for their length and therefore won't have as much stability as a similar length conventional ski. Also, (up to a point at least) twin tips are built with at least some park riding in mind and so they will have a pretty soft flex or at least a soft tail. Again this can often detract from usefullness on groomers. If you don't have park skiing in mind, a twin tip is still ok but you might be better off with a conventional ski.

So......a twin tip can work well off trail, and in softer snow, and some are certainly OK on groomers. As a general rule, a twin won't work as well on the groomers as a similar conventional ski. If you are going to place your priorities on powder skiing then a twin can make sense. If OTH you place equal priority to groomers as on powder skiing, then a more conventional ski might be in order.

The P-90 is pretty firm and is a good AM ski for a twin tip.

SJ
post #3 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
Twin tips in general will have a short running surface for their length and therefore won't have as much stability as a similar length conventional ski. Also, (up to a point at least) twin tips are built with at least some park riding in mind and so they will have a pretty soft flex or at least a soft tail. Again this can often detract from usefullness on groomers. If you don't have park skiing in mind, a twin tip is still ok but you might be better off with a conventional ski.

So......a twin tip can work well off trail, and in softer snow, and some are certainly OK on groomers. As a general rule, a twin won't work as well on the groomers as a similar conventional ski. If you are going to place your priorities on powder skiing then a twin can make sense. If OTH you place equal priority to groomers as on powder skiing, then a more conventional ski might be in order.

The P-90 is pretty firm and is a good AM ski for a twin tip.

SJ
how does a ski being a twin tip make it automatically not going to be as good as groomers?

A soft flex, or a soft tails are not bad things for most people, even so called experts.

how about a K2 PE vs K2 Recon, very similar waist widths and yet on my feet the K2 Pe is alot better groomer ski. Not to mention the PE is snappier and more energetic, and easier to ski off trail.
post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
how does a ski being a twin tip make it automatically not going to be as good as groomers?

I didn't say that it did.

A soft flex, or a soft tails are not bad things for most people, even so called experts.

I didn't say that it wasn't, although I don't know about the (most) part.

how about a K2 PE vs K2 Recon, very similar waist widths and yet on my feet the K2 Pe is alot better groomer ski. Not to mention the PE is snappier and more energetic, and easier to ski off trail.

The OP was not asking about PE's, Recons, Volkl Karmas, or Scratch BC's he was asking about Line Prophet 90's
Generally when the OP asks about something specific there is a reason for that and I tend answer the question as asked.

I answered the OP's question with a few pros-cons of twin tips. I didn't suggest something different than what he asked about because I didn't see any reason to. I have skiied both the PE and the P-90 and felt no reason to contradict his choice. Among twin tip skis, his choice was a good one.

Furthermore......................

The Recon vs. the PE comparison is totally irrelevant as I would never equate those two skis for the same skier. FWIW...I would compare the PE to a Fischer Watea 84 or a Mythic Rider and I feel both of those skis are superior on groomers to the PE.


SJ
post #5 of 12
Want to point out that this is Stoverski3's FIRST post. Welcome to EPIC!

Stoverski3, both of these guys are excellent skiers and respected members of the EPIC community; obviously they're showing some history here. Not sure they'd agree on the time of day right now.

No experience with Lines, but I've skied some TT in the same rough range as the P90 (Mojo90, Karma, Mantra 94, Scratch's, PR) and some traditional tailed in that area (K2 Outlaw, Legend 8800, Elan 777). IMO, the vaguer/softer release of TT tails makes them easier to handle in most soft conditions, and a lot of folks prefer them for bumps/trees (as long as you don't hook the tails). That said, even the firmer ones like the Karma (and I've heard that Lines and Atomics do well on hard), still don't have the bite or precision on hardpack of a traditional tailed ski. They'll have a lower speed limit. They also tend to lack the pop out of the turn that some race-trained skiers like.

This isn't a personal bias - I own and like both kinds - just basic engineering. When someone here says that he/she can rock at high speed on hardpack in their TT's, or smear beautifully in deep bumpy chop on their stiff flat tails, they're really talking about their abilities, not the innate characteristics of the ski.

So when I read your post, I see that you're concerned about chatter, about managing edges, about getting bucked, and about a ski that can handle hardpack/groomed between infrequent powder.

It would help if you specified your size and weight, but from your statement, my guess is - unless you hit the park - that you'd benefit from a damp/mid-flex traditional tailed ski in the high 70's to middle 80's. Yes, a P90 would probably meet many of your needs, and a Mojo or PE might be as good or better. But not sure these are the best choice for what sound like predominately hard conditions and your issues with edge control and chattering (if you really really want to stick with a TT, think about Fischer, which are light and damp, but legendary for bite).

And FWIW, I've been skiing for a half century, still find that lessons and good boots can help more than new skis.
post #6 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoverski3 View Post
Hi, my name is Andrea and I am in the market for some new skis. I currently own 05 Line Assasins which I bought under the assumption that they were an all mountain ski. However, whenever I get the urge to go fast they start chattering like nobody's business, and sometimes one decides to catch an edge and take off. Mind you I have been skiing for 11 years, so the catching the edge isn't because I am a crappy skier. Anyway what I need to know is....is the Prophet 90 all its cracked up to be. I love powder skiing but it seems like you don't get to many powder days so I need something that will also go fast on the hard packed/groomed, and that could handle some moguls every once and a while. Oh and that doesn't try to buck me off like my Assasins. I looked at the Prophet 80 and they claim to be a stiffer ski, but does anyone know how they handle in powder? Ok long post...but I need some good opinions.
3 skis, I would recommend for a all mountain twin tip, for a girl...I listed 2 choices for each brand. The first if you'd rather it be better in powder, the 2nd if you'd rather it be better in park/bumps. I thought all were fairly stable at speed. They aren't race ski stable, but they aren't bad either. I ski the Dynastar Big Trouble as my main ski, and I love it for everything, except rails and halfpipe. Listed in order of more stable to less stable (top to bottom).


1. K2 Nancy or Misdemeanor
2. Dynastar She's Trouble BC or She's Trouble
3. Salomon Scarlet or Mynx (unless you like the Men's graphic, they are exactly the same).

The Volkl Karma;s are nice too. More stable, but I found them a little stiff for me (I weigh about 130lbs).
post #7 of 12
Chill guys. :

Disclaimer: I never skied the lines specifically. MY infois that they are a stiffer and capable all mountain twintip.

To the OP. I wouldn't over think groomer performance too much for a ski like the P90 especially if your focus is soft snow. If you have been skiing for 11 years you shouldn't have a problem arcing a 90mm twintip on piste assuming you have room to let them run to near their natural radius and your snow is softer than rock hard. If you are skiing tight bumps or icy groomers alot while waiting for the pow something else might be better. Your narrower TT will be better in bumps I would suspect. A narrower stiffer ski might be more fun for ripping hard icy groomers. Don't be discouraged; a 9Xmm TT ski with a medium flex can be really stable for high speed cruising in a longer length. I was on a nodica beast 188cm which is a similar shape (but no metal like the lines) last season at 7Springs. No carving ski they, but not bad for cruising long arcs, stable to high speeds, held a pretty good edge unless the snow was so hard that even my carvers were starting to get skittish. They don't feel like a narrow stiff carver or anything racing inspired, but fun nevertheless. This sort of ski its sort of hard to go wrong with in just about any conditions.
post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 

more of my stats and preferences

sorry i didn't include all the details in my first post. I'm 21, an advanced skier that skis in Washington and Idaho. I am 5'11" and about 170. My current skis are a 176 cm Line Assasins.. If I were to get the the Line Prophet 90 I think I would get the 172 cm length. Oh and to some of you who were confused...I am a girl...since a couple of the post were referring to me as a guy. Anyway...I DO NOT want a park ski. I go off jumps and have a little fun but I don't do rails, boxes, or the halfpipe. Also I am postive I want twin tips because I do ski fakie quite often. They don't have to be a full twin...directional is ok...but I want something better than Assasins(they can't handle speed or crud)...that is truly all mountain (handles powder and trees as well as breakneck speed and turns on the groomers). Reviews on Prophet 80 or 90 are great...thanks.
post #9 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoverski3 View Post
sorry i didn't include all the details in my first post....[snip ] I am 5'11" and about 170....[snip]If I were to get the the Line Prophet 90 I think I would get the 172 cm length....[snip] I am postive I want twin tips because I do ski fakie quite often. They don't have to be a full twin...directional is ok...[snip]
Ok, you raise some good points with this. First off, when do you ski switch if you're not that into park? Do you ski pow switch and land switch into pow? Or are you primarily easing into and/or out of tight spots (trees, bumps, chutes) by occasionally sliding backwards? For landing and skiing backwards on a sustained basis, a full height twin and a fairly symetrical flex pattern is an obvious benefit. For just sliding backwards a bit, a reduced-height twin or just squash or ruonded tail will be better; the reason is that full twins don't work as well for skiing forwards in powder because the rooster tail can actually cause the tail of your ski to wash around. Twins of whatever height on groomed will basically smooth out your turn exit a bit, but again they can snag in bumps, etc.

Why the fixation with Line Prophets? They're good skis (and directional, meaning they're stiffer toward the tail, not overly soft in the tail), but why are you asking about them, specifically? Also, the 172 would be awful short for all-mountain. I'm giving you more contradictory advice, and therefore not being all that helpful, but what I'd suggest is you check out the recommended skis & binding discussion on TGR, that's now being maintained here, http://thegearguru.com/index.php?nam...=viewtopic&t=5, reflect on how that applies to what you want to do with your skis, etc.

ps.: your current skis sound like they are occasionally hooking on you, check your base bevel and detune, it sounds like it's more on either you or the tune than the ski.
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 

more details and answers

I guess all the reading up on the prophets got me hooked. They sound as if they would be perfect, but I don't want to just buy them because of good advertising, that's why I was asking on the forum. Anyway, I am not opposed to other types of skis I just don't want a soft floppy twin that I can't take out on the groomers. I am still trying to figure out if it could possibly be my old boots that were part of the problem. I have a new (slightly used) pair og Technica Diablo Flames that I am going to try out at the beginning of this season, and I will see if I have slightly better control on my skis. I went for the shorter length because I used to have a pair of Rossignol V2R in a 178 and I could not turn them in tight spaces to save my life. Could be because they were so stiff. Oh and in response to the question about me skiing switch, I do land switch off jumps occassionally but mostly I just have fun skiing backwards on groomers.
post #11 of 12
I really liked the Prophet 90 as an everyday-type ski when I demo'd them. The shovel is quite soft and the tail is progressively stiffer. It's a directional ski, though I did try skiing backwards (but no jumps). I live in British Columbia (interior, so similar snow to where you live in WA) and they do very well in crud, light pow and pretty well on groomers (I say "pretty well" because they'll never measure up to a thin, piste-oriented ski). My preference in the end was for the Dynastar Big Trouble, though that was just a preference thing - liked the Prophet 90 just fine. FWIW, I'm male, 5'8" and 175. I prefer off-piste to groomers, but like to stay with friends and fam when they are cruising. I demo'd the 172 length as well.
post #12 of 12
Stoverski3 - i used prophet 80 for a week in very deep powder. i can just ski like carving on pack snow without any problem. that is it floats for me. the last day of the trip was frozen rain, the prophet also works perfectly well, good gripping even at pretty high speed. the only complaint is going through mogul. but then it could be my skill problem.
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