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Cougar Crossing Road this Morning - Page 2

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve crumbaugh View Post
If all you guys are overjoyed with wolves coming back, do the rest of us a favor and take them home to raise. We're tired of losing livestock.
I have heard there is a problem with that in Idaho, but only because the farms are in the wilderness area, where they shouldn't be.
post #32 of 49
I can't comment much on livestock issues, and I sympathise with farmers and ranchers who lose livestock to predators. I am in favor of "sensible" predator control and not indiscriminate shooting/poisoning. I remember reading about some success with sheep when using large guard dogs that would basically live with the sheep as "sheep". From personal experience with some of these breeds, I would favor them over a coyote or wolf anyday.

In my area, there is an enlarging deer population due to less people hunting and habitat opening up. The only natural predator that they would have around here would be the coyote. Studies that I have read favor a natural predator/prey relationship for the health of both populations. As to decimating a population, my guess is that there was an unaturally high number of deer in the area -- coyotes cannot wipe them out. An analogy is the raccoon population -- around here years ago there were gazzillions of raccons feasting on people's garbage, pet food left outside, etc. When rabies came to Massachusetts, the raccoon numbers plummetted. The wildlife people feel that the (smaller) numbers of raccoons that we see now are more representative of what the carrying capacity of the land should be.

Coy-dogs are probably the exception rather than the rule (at least in Massachusetts). Read Jon Way's book -- there are several reasons why coyotes do not tend to breed with dogs.

Removing coyotes from an area is a bad idea -- a "nonproblem" coyote will live peacefully with humans as long as we don't do stupid things (leaving small dogs and infants outside unsupervised, leaving food out for the coyotes so that they acclimate to people, etc.) When a coyote is removed or disappears from a territory, there is documentation that the coyote numbers in that area will go UP, as transients and abutters negotiate new territory rights.
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbinder View Post
I can't comment much on livestock issues, and I sympathise with farmers and ranchers who lose livestock to predators.
I wouldn't sympathize too much with whiney farmers -- if their states don't have a reimbursement program for lost livestock -- and many do -- they need to turn their ire on their cheaparse legislators, not on the animals. The cost for these reimbursement programs are tiny compared to the cost of destroying the environment.
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
I live in a semi-rural area of NJ and five years back there were lots of sightings of a puma/cougar/lion within a mile of my home. Bears, I've seen one and one coyote too.

Despite the number of sightings the state fish & game denies that it exists.

Back in the 70's I was sitting in my digs at a state park up in Sussex County and a fellow came up to report a cougar/mountain lion sighting. The ranger I was with told the guy it was not possible. The guy pointed to the Colorado tags on his car and said damn it, I know a lion when I see one.

If your gubberment says that there ain't no lions then there ain't no lions .... got that! :

It's like the wolf that ran in front of my truck. A few weeks later I was talkng to an air conditiong guy who raises wolves. When I asked him where he lives ..... it was just above the base of the hill where I saw the wolf ..... that doesn't exist of course.
Yep, PA denies any mountain lions here also, yet many have seen them in our mountains over the years around Laurel Mtn, Hidden Valley and Seven Springs. We have bear (seen may times myself), coyote (again, seen myself) bob cats (seen myself, hell all three are in my back yard) and anything else you can think of. While I have yet to personally see a mtn lion, I expect to someday. Animals migrate as their terrain is built up with commercialization.
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylormatt View Post
Yep, PA denies any mountain lions here also, yet many have seen them in our mountains over the years around Laurel Mtn, Hidden Valley and Seven Springs. We have bear (seen may times myself), coyote (again, seen myself) bob cats (seen myself, hell all three are in my back yard) and anything else you can think of. While I have yet to personally see a mtn lion, I expect to someday. Animals migrate as their terrain is built up with commercialization.
Not sure why this thread is in General Ski Discussion, but whatever.

Sorry guy, but no mountain lions in Pa, not in my considered opinion -- except released exotic pets, which are more common than you might imagine. Many of these pumas are actually from South America. Just because there are bears, coyotes, and bobcats, doesn't mean "anything else you can think of," as you put it, exists in the wilds of Pa, obviously. Bears, coyotes, and bobcats are well-known inhabitants in Pa. This is something I really care about and I've studied it in my spare time for years.

The reason why rangers and DNR types get irritated about mountain lion conspiracies is two-fold: first of all, mountain lions are not like Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster. They leave real evidence and they act like real animals. You can't just have one here and another 1000 miles away. They exist in populations, and they leave significant signs of their presence. Secondly, the myth of the mountain lions in places like Pa takes away from real conservation work. The problem is, DISPROVING the existence of a wild animal which doesn't exist is very hard, whereas any Tom, Dick or Harry can accuse the government of a conspiracy and someone will always believe them.

I would like to see a reintroduction program in The Wilds of Pa, based on Asian lions -- and I don't mean pumas, I mean lions. It's only been 10,000 since a large species lion (larger than the African lion) wandered North America -- that's a blink of the eye in ecological terms:



There are some REAL animals which are endangered in Pa, some on the brink of extinction, but they're not as "sexy" as mountain lions. For example, this fascinating insectivore, the Least Shrew:

post #36 of 49
Let the stocking begin!

In your back yard Trots!




: Might make a nice "on campus" project & you could get a grant?
post #37 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotski View Post
I would like to see a reintroduction program in The Wilds of Pa, based on Asian lions -- and I don't mean pumas, I mean lions. It's only been 10,000 since a large species lion (larger than the African lion) wandered North America -- that's a blink of the eye in ecological terms:
Oh yeah that would be a great idea : Ah Asian lions eat people as finger food you know. Good luck with that project.

This guy that worked with my wife years ago had an Asian Lion pet near the Rip Van Winkle bridge toll. One day he got loose and was just resting a few feet up the road from the bridge toll collectors booth. People would drive up pay there toll and say you know there is a lion just up the road. After about the 6h person saying this, the toll collector called the police. They captured him and returned him to his owner. The owner told me he was fun to play with when he was younger. He can no longer get in and play with him anymore.
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post
Oh yeah that would be a great idea : Ah Asian lions eat people as finger food you know. Good luck with that project.
Again, not sure how this is a General Ski Discussion, but ...

It's not as far-fetched as it sounds. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8983461/

Africa is only the last place where lion roams far and wide -- they used to be pretty much everywhere. If you get a chance to go, I recommend visiting Africa -- you can see how humans and big animals can co-exist fairly peacefully. But why should Africa now be the world "game park" while the rest of the world industrializes and creates agribusiness-run mega-farms? We have room in the US to create a "pleistocene" zone. Even east of the MS, there's West Virginia, the Wilds in Pa, parts of Maine, and Mississippi itself. Lots of land.
post #39 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotski View Post
Africa is only the last place where lion roams far and wide -- they used to be pretty much everywhere. If you get a chance to go, I recommend visiting Africa -- you can see how humans and big animals can co-exist fairly peacefully. But why should Africa now be the world "game park" while the rest of the world industrializes and creates agribusiness-run mega-farms?
I agree that 10,000 years ago is not very long ago. Let me say that again 10,000 years ago was not long ago. The short-Faced Bear was alive and well in North America 10,000 years ago. I would not want the Short-Face bear or African lion living free anywere near my back yard.

Personally I like the idea of walking in the woods without having to be too concerned with being attacked by a carnivore or killed by poisonous reptile. I can handle the favorable odds here in North America. Does coming face to face with a 400 lbs black bear eating your food while backpacking 15 miles from the nearest road with your 12 year old son get your hear pumping? You bet it does. But I also know if your not stupid, the odds are very good for a favorable outcome.

Your probably correct that Africa would be an awesome place to visit. Living there would be a very different kind of decision.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotski View Post
Again, not sure how this is a General Ski Discussion, but ...
I'll bet if you tap your ski boots together and say it one more time this thread will dissapear...just like in the Wizzard of Oz.

I've seen two Cougars, both times they were crossing the road and both times I considered myself fortunate to have gotten a glimpse at an amazing animal. They move with such stealth and poise.
post #41 of 49
Lions and Ti-double-gup-r's and Bears .... Oh my!

Fine ... but ... just so we can go back to the "old ways".

I was inquiring about attending an archaeology dig up in Alaska and the camp rules were clear as a bell.

Attendees will have and carry at all times a hand gun of no less than .357 caliber ....

Guess why?
post #42 of 49
I like cougars as much as the next man, though they probably prefer younger meat., but this is too much..
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...r-canmore.html
post #43 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
I like cougars as much as the next man, though they probably prefer younger meat., but this is too much..
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...r-canmore.html
Too funny. They didn't catch on to the cougar code. One growl for rare steak, two for medium, and three for well done. Or is it the other way around. If he starts taping his feet run like hell.


One more thing. People have been asking why this is under Ski Discussion. The reason is obvious. I saw the cougar while driving to a ski area. DAH
post #44 of 49
Weren't there a few deaths in California over the past few years ... a woman jogging and a kid on a hike?
post #45 of 49
I completely understand the issue of livestock damage and wildlife. And its not as simple as a "govt program" reimbursing you.
That is a topic best left in the supporter lounge.

As for wild life in our every day life and the beauty of it............
Its common to see wildlife like this in my yard, but then I have a YARD!!
I have been surprised at the amount of tracks I see on the ski hills around here, especially when we are on first chair(which is frequently).

Wildlife is everywhere that I enjoy my leisure, skiing, biking, golf.....you name it. In my summer of golf outings, I've seen several deer, a couple raccoons wrestling in the fairway, a woodchuck, beaver, black bear and snapping turtles.

post #46 of 49
Cougar sighting.


post #47 of 49
It was quite frightening! Just this mornng I shot a cougar in my pajamas. Just how he got into my pajamas I'll never know.

:


thank you captain spaulding
post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
It was quite frightening! Just this mornng I shot a cougar in my pajamas. Just how he got into my pajamas I'll never know.

:


thank you captain spaulding
How much longer till winter:
post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post

As for wild life in our every day life and the beauty of it............
Its common to see wildlife like this in my yard, but then I have a YARD!!
I have been surprised at the amount of tracks I see on the ski hills around here, especially when we are on first chair(which is frequently).

.
Otis and Jerry chase em away - except for the turkeys. They tend to keep their distance, but once they go after the boys they run like hell.
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