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Width, the new Sidecut? - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Err...

Almost ever ski has a tail 10mm narrower than the tip... thats not alot of taper. Lots of taper is when the tail is only slightly wider than the middle (just a 10-20% or so).

Scratch Mogul 104-65-85Volkl Dragon Slayer 94-66-80
Twister
98-66-85
Mojo Mogul
89-60-80
CaBrawler 92-66-82

Most of these have what I would consider to be pretty normal taper.

The key attributes for a bumps ski are flex. Softer helps, the ski should be soft enough not to hook up on a hard edge. It needs to have a soft edge. It also needs to be narrow enough so that both skis can fit together in the line you are skiing. However this depends on the bumps and line choice.
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
This is probably why Ty Rocks in the Moguls on the 888!
With the tail 10 mm narrower than the tip, it makes perfect sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
Err...

Almost ever ski has a tail 10mm narrower than the tip... thats not alot of taper. Lots of taper is when the tail is only slightly wider than the middle (just a 10-20% or so).


Scratch Mogul 104-65-85Volkl Dragon Slayer 94-66-80
Twister
98-66-85
Mojo Mogul
89-60-80
CaBrawler 92-66-82

Most of these have what I would consider to be pretty normal taper.

The key attributes for a bumps ski are flex. Softer helps, the ski should be soft enough not to hook up on a hard edge. It needs to have a soft edge. It also needs to be narrow enough so that both skis can fit together in the line you are skiing. However this depends on the bumps and line choice.
Err.........
Sometimes I have a bigger blonde moment than others.
Consider this one of those times.
The Elan 888 has a sidecut of 128/88/108 I meant 20mm difference.

Its properties are all that you describe above.
post #33 of 45
In talking to Iriponsnow last night we came to this conclusion....

90% of the skiers out there will be fine on a ski 80mm in the waist (+/-5) with a 15M TR, this ski will suffice in 90% of the conditions (s)he will be skiing.
post #34 of 45
Being an East-Coaster, I don't get a chance to ski deep snow very often. I have tried a couple "fatter" skis (waist widths in the 80+ range though); I've never found them to be "magic wands" that suddenly make difficult conditions easy though.

Maybe my natural stance doesn't co-operate well with wide skis? I do naturally stand with my legs fairly close, so I feel on fat skis that I have to fight my natural stance, and it just doesn't work for me.

My "fat skis" are a pair of K2 Recon's (78mm underfoot). They do smooth the ride out somewhat, and there are time I've definitely been glad I've had them under my feet (boot-top deep chowder in Highlands Bowl, for instance). I have no desire to go any wider then that.

But, for instance, I've skied knee-deep fluff at Stowe on Elan Speedwave's (69mm underfoot), and was never wishing I had my Recon's. They worked just fine. Go fast enough and everything floats. And I've been in some "snow" that resembled Elmer's Glue where my technique was so god-awful that I would have been eating snow no matter what was under my feet.

Anyway... I guess my point is that, for me at least -- in conditions where I feel confident, I don't think going wide would buy me anything. In conditions where I'm semi-confident -- there's some assistance, but I think the "assistance" is a long way from "magic"... More like, "well, I know I can get out of this without killing myself". And in "dear God, please get me out alive" conditions -- well, I would suck in those conditions regardless of what's under my feet (as I've discovered several times).
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Carving has been done, park is played out, powder is a limited supply commodity, so, what's next?

Wouldn't it be cool if it was something that took real skill and dedication?



YES..... what happened to real all-mtn ripping instead of product pushing.....
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
In talking to Iriponsnow last night we came to this conclusion....

90% of the skiers out there will be fine on a ski 80mm in the waist (+/-5) with a 15M TR, this ski will suffice in 90% of the conditions (s)he will be skiing.
so true, perhaps people would even ski better & have more fun. instead of hacking around on skis they have no use for or skill to handle.
post #37 of 45
Everyone wants there to be some way to instantly improve, combine that with the fact that most 'skiers' have more income than spare time and you get...TAH DAH...the desire (and recently the ability) to buy skill. Carving skis can carve all by themselves, put 'em on edge and hang on, you're carving courdoroy. Fat skis allow new skiers to play in fresh snow without developing any new ability, go wide and it feels like 3" over groomed coudoroy. Hero snow.

Unless we all start living differently this trend of buying a seperate ski for every task will continue, it's more reasonable than taking time off to ski and develop a quiver of skills.
post #38 of 45
ouch.


then again after last season I'm confident that I ski half-assed well.

i found that i had more fun on something like the King Salmon and the Spatula in deeper snow than i ever remember having had on my 7S's.

i think that's what it boils down to me...having fun.

i have more fun on hardpack and spring snow on my No Ka Ois. I have more fun on boiler plate and hardpack on my T9's. I have more fun on basic, everyday snow on my King Salmons. And I certainly have more fun on ankle to thigh deep on my Spats.

as for having more disposable income than free time, mine is about even. I ain't rich, but I also brown bag my lunch 5 days a week, stay at home on weekends, and have given up bad habits like collecting comic books in order to stash away $$$ for gear, lift tickets, and gas. if you want the gear, i don't see anything wrong with working to get it.

and while some gear will certainly give you an edge, you still have to have basic skills in order to use it.
post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Gimme fat over sidecut any day in the moguls.
Same here. As long as it's straightish..it's fine.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Everyone wants there to be some way to instantly improve, combine that with the fact that most 'skiers' have more income than spare time and you get...TAH DAH...the desire (and recently the ability) to buy skill. Carving skis can carve all by themselves, put 'em on edge and hang on, you're carving courdoroy. Fat skis allow new skiers to play in fresh snow without developing any new ability, go wide and it feels like 3" over groomed coudoroy. Hero snow.

Unless we all start living differently this trend of buying a seperate ski for every task will continue, it's more reasonable than taking time off to ski and develop a quiver of skills.
My take on quiver proliferation is a little different. It has more to do with the urge to collect interesting items, than the desire to buy skill.

It's like the amateur cooking enthusiast buying a professional grade oven. Its overkill for sure, and the person will not immediately prepare a gourmet feast unless they have the right ingredients and also develop the required knowledge & skills.

Larger quivers are simply a statement of commitment to an activity, a curiosity about design & technology and a hobby unto itself.

Michael
post #41 of 45
Word up!

Or

Can I get an amen?!?!?
post #42 of 45
If you really want to be anti-trend and impress everyone, get a pair of 12 foot long straight edgeless hickory boards. Let's face it - whatever you're curently skiing is the result of at least 5 "trends". Pretty much any technical advance in ski design will amke it easier for flailers to appear less flaily. But they also make it more fun for the rest of us. And they also make it possible for those who already are skilled to take it that much further.
post #43 of 45
I'm all for technology, well sort of, I don't ski my old skis very often. I'm just saying people lament the 'cost' of skiing, they moan about the price of gear...and then they buy 4 different pairs of skis (and are plotting what to get next). I don't mind people having multiple pairs of skis and I understand fully why they do it, they want to have as much fun as possible in the limited time they have to ski. Having skis that are optimized for the days conditions is a nice luxury to have. I get it. I'll leave it at that.
post #44 of 45
That's the problem with technology. It's a useful tool for some and a total crutch for others. I know people who would curl up into the fetal postition and die if you took away thier cell phone/blackberry/bluetooth/Ipod/GPS.

As for widths going back down, I think it's a ways off yet. There are some freakishly wide skis out there, but I don't think it's gotten to the point of critical mass yet. Personally, I can't see the point of a traditionally shaped ski with more than, say, a 115mm waist and a 135mm shovel. Beyond that it just feels wierd to have that wide of a stance.

The wide craze is kinda funny because so many people just focus on width when it's really just one of several factors that determine deep snow performance. All you ever hear is guys blabbing about waist width and very little about sidecut, flex, tip shape, tail shape, camber, rocker, etc.
post #45 of 45

I have just purchased a pair of 110 mm wide skis and they are absolutely wicked ,I haven`t had chance to ski them in powder (light fluffy stuff, not packed down fluffy stuff ) but i have done a few turns on them and they are not the monsters that some people think and i can actually turn them really easy so i think I might be able get around the hill on them.I dont think the size of the wand matters its the magic you can do with it thats what ive been told anyway, and if you ski on wide ski`s and enjoy yourself then so be it and everyone who skis on narrow ski`s happy days .People are so full of shit when it comes saying whats right and whats wrong i dont think there is a right or wrong in a person choice as long as you are happy and enjoying the sport who cares.bye the way they are reverse camber ,rockered tips ,twin tip ,im gonna break me hip ,i dont give a shit ski`s.

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Width, the new Sidecut?