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What happened to carving? - Page 2

post #31 of 63
Well if it wasn't excused by gear then it would just be bad form. I, for one, hope I have an excuse.

I really enjoy carving on my metrons.
post #32 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
suddenly everyone has gone from wanting to rail arcs in the snow to this smear/skid crap. come'on....... it's just poor form excused by gear
I think you are confusing wanted to smear/skid in the trees, through shoots and other off-piste terrain and conditions and carving arcs on groomed runs. I am going to venture that most of us prefer off-piste over groomed conditions.
post #33 of 63
Some of us still prefer the to do the 3-D equivalent of carving over smearing in deep snow, unless that tight turn to miss the rock face at the bottom of the chute limits our maximum speed. I hate it when they put a really tight turn with no other option at the bottom of a nice narrow steep trail (ok. they don't "put" the obstacle there, except for one run that I recall had a ski lift column at the bottom of it).
post #34 of 63

Carving is dead!

The reason fat skis are so popular is that you never have to carve. Just like snowboards, only a tiny percentage of boarders/fat skiers are truely carving their turns, but there are lots of hacks sideslipping and smear turning down steep runs. If you are a bad skier it is easier to ski on fat skis. Much easier to balance, almost impossible to catch an outside edge, and more surface to help you slow down when you smear.

You see the strong young kids almost straight lining the bumps and flapping their arms like they are turning in a way that would be almost impossible on narrow skis. You also see lots of people on steep slopes (who could not carve a turn to save their life) side slipping and smearing their way down who would not be there if they were on 65 mm waisted skis.

Skiing is about balance and it's easier on wider skis. My bitch with that is the same as with snow boards, you end up with a lot of hacks messing up a lot of good snow on steep runs, which never occured before there were boards and fat skis. It's too easy to be a bad skier on fat skis. It's not wrong to have equipment that makes the sport easier, but I don't have to like it. Fat skis are also one of the reasons the popularity of AT skiing has exploded the last 5 years. If you want untracked you don't find it at the areas for long any more.

Carving is dead, long live carving!
post #35 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
to be clear here, i am talking about the act of carving as much if not more than the gear itself........suddenly everyone has gone from wanting to rail arcs in the snow to this smear/skid crap. come'on....... it's just poor form excused by gear

I like to rail high speed arcs on fresh steep corduroy as much as anyone, but my true passion lies off-piste and in the nooks and crannies off the beaten path. For me, it's all about the line. Sometimes that line requires smear/skidding crap, sometimes that line requires bold carves and precise edge sets, and most lines require a combination of everything. Poor form excused by gear in this situation or necessary form demanded by the line?
post #36 of 63
"suddenly everyone has gone from wanting to rail arcs in the snow to this smear/skid crap. come'on....... it's just poor form excused by gear"

Hmmm.

I think Ty nailed it. It really depends on what type of terrain you're skiing (and like to ski).

Who really cares anyway? I believe folks have said it time and time again: isn't the core reason we all ski is to have fun?

If somebody wants to smear, I say let 'em.

And if they would rather carve, who cares? Let 'em!

Me, I like to do a little of everything, though admittedly I'm not that great of a carver and found myself experimenting and working on laying down a rail in certain terrain last year and also by proxy of whom I happened to be skiing with on a given day.

If I'm riding with my buddy Trevor and he's in his carving set-up on his snowboard, then we're probably gonna be railing groomers. But if he's in his tele set-up, chances are we're going to be doing some in-bounds hiking where he'll be genuflecting and i'll be smearing.

Honestly, last season I rode with some incredibly awesome skiers. Some of them were all about technique and carving, others were all about charging hard with not much attention paid to form, but rather function.

Again, Ty really nailed it. It all depends on what type of terrain you're gravitating towards and for me, I'm more likely to be 70% or more off-piste these days.
post #37 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
So I've seen the mags for gear 08 & stopped into a few shops already: I see tons of mushy boots & reverse camber/140mm/inverted sidecut skis. Sure you will look damn cool in the parking lot to lift scene, but whatever happened to the good old fashion hero carver icon? Did folks relize it was hard & just give up? I've been on 110mm ski, unless it is heli time, they are plane cumbsy.

Even here people are questioning "what's missing b/t 94 & 130mm?" How bout a 66mm ice scalpel?

08-i'm bringing carving back!
Carving, hypercarving and RACING (remember that word?) is alive and well in Europe. As is the big-mountain fat board. I happen to LIKE carving on a squeeky tight surface...especially if that's all we've got to ski on. I also like floating in the powpow when I can find it. There are probably 6 or more major manufacturers of "hypercarving" skis in Europe...WHY?...because they sell hypercarving skis !!! Here...not so much...oh well.

I think you need BOTH. Race-like carving tool to set trenches in the hardpack, and mid-fat to fat floater to cruise the crud and surf the powder.
I think people like the fatter boards because they're "easy" to manage, aren't psychotic when edged the wrong way and make most common skiers happy....oh well.

As for carving skis...here are a few models keeping me awake at night:
(ok...some fatties are in the list...maybe it will snow this year in the NorthEast and we'll need them?)

Virus Raptor carving Ski
(http://www.virus-snowboards.de/com/i...&sub2=3&sub3=3)

Sporten Tector Skicross Ski
(http://www.sporten.cz/html-en/produc...D=1&subCatID=6)

ScottyBob Powerstorm
(http://www.scottybob.com/alpine/powerstorm.html)

Praxis Powder Ski
(http://praxisskis.com/ski/index.php?...=7&Itemid =29)

Palmer P02 Carving Ski
(http://www.palmerusa.com)

Ogasaka Ski KC-RV17
(http://www.ogasaka-ski.co.jp/product/ski/special.html)

Obsidian Mantle Ski
(http://www.obsidianskis.com/)

Lib Tech NAS (Narrow Ass Snowboards) with Magnetraction Serrated edges
(http://www.libtechnas.com/)

Kastle Prototypes:
(http://www.kaestle-ski.com)

Eckhard Carving Ski:
(http://www.eckhard.at/)

Duel XL-Round Ski:
(http://www.dueltime.it/prodotti/english/XL_html_en)

Core Musclecar Ski:
http://www.coreskis.ch/muscle-car.html)

Boheme Forest Ski:
(http://www.boheme.fr/GB/eng.html)

Blossom Only One Ski:
(http://www.blossom.suinternet.com/in...oduzione&id=18)

AK-Ski Black Race:
(http://www.ak-ski.ch/en/e_details/e_Track_details.php)
post #38 of 63
Have to agree with Bob P - Most skiers can't carve consistently even on perfect groomed, forget ice. Even though most resorts, most of the time, offer mainly hard groomed and icy backsides between storms. So lo and behold, suddenly it's no longer cool to carve. And just as the U.S. market was saturated with shaped carvers; what a coincidence! Now only gapers enjoy groomed. Everyone who matters wants to be a backside adventurer, and we all need fatties we can slide back and forth on those hundred yards of 20 degree pitch, feeling like heroes. :
post #39 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Now only gapers enjoy groomed.

Finally, someone making some sense!
post #40 of 63
Thread Starter 
post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rio View Post
You're missing why fat skis are so appealling. Most skiers can't carve but carving skis are hard to skid. Fat skis, on the otherhand, are simple to skid so many people find them easier to ski.
...and then they say they're "carving"...
post #42 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
High-fat skiing
post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
i will agree many wider skis hold on groomed better then they used to but 90% of the carving thrill is a bit over zealous, let's say 52%
If that.
post #44 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Is this like frozen yogurt vs. Ben and Jerry's
post #45 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
Once you are able to ski them it isn't harder... it is more fun. Of course, once there is a resonable amount of fresh snow I ditch the stock SLs for some fat skis.
I agree.
post #46 of 63
I become tired after a few hours on the little buggers with small TR's.
post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
If that.


Is was being generous and factious!
post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
I become tired after a few hours on the little buggers with small TR's.
Ditto

The true merit a shorter SL ski is that it forces a skier to ski well, and punishes faults like a bad tempered ski coach. On smaller ski areas, this can be a very good developmental tool.

At larger resorts, smaller SL skis are a waste of a good ski day.

Michael
post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrettscv View Post
Ditto

The true merit a shorter SL ski is that it forces a skier to ski well, and punishes faults like a bad tempered ski coach. On smaller ski areas, this can be a very good developmental tool.

At larger resorts, smaller SL skis are a waste of a good ski day.

Michael
I still like the SL skis for physical abuse but have bought some fat ski this season for a change of pace.
post #50 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrettscv View Post
At larger resorts, smaller SL skis are a waste of a good ski day.
Why?
post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Why?
Because you can't carve LR turns on them, and you can't carve SR turns at exciting speeds.
post #52 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Because you can't carve LR turns on them, and you can't carve SR turns at exciting speeds.
No its because YOU can't carve SR turns on them at exciting speeds!!!!


I can. It pays to be easily excited. :
post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Why?
Max, as argued many times before, I don't need-to or want-to focus on technique when enjoying big mountain skiing. I'd rather be scanning the terrain for the best line and using my now instinctive skills to ski at a GS pace.

I skied Mt Bachelor last April on a new pair of 165cm Fischer WC SC. While these are much easier than a FIS SL ski, they had me spooked most of the time.

On my first day I skied the backside in boot-top deep snow, not the best ski for soft snow when you tip the scale at 240 lbs. My second day provided a snow/sleet event with several inches of slush with watery mounds of snow everywhere. This combined with flat light finally forced me to demo some 186cm Monster 88's.

Most people would not describe a 186cm Monster 88 as "easy", but it truly was for me that day.

I think we have discussed this all before...

Cheers,

Michael
post #54 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Why?
Because.
post #55 of 63
This thread reminds me of the helmet debate.
post #56 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
I become tired after a few hours on the little buggers with small TR's.
That's good, right??

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
I still like the SL skis for physical abuse...
That's the spirit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
...but have bought some fat ski this season for a change of pace.
No shame in taking it easy sometimes. I use a snowboard for that.
post #57 of 63
I think what it all comes down to is this:

There are people who enjoy carving a bazillion short radius turns under the lifts to try and impress everyone with thier flawless HH-approved technique while thier buddy videotapes them for later online discussions involving the minute intricacies of hard snow carving technique and then there are people who ski because it's fun.
post #58 of 63
Yeah, except I don't have a buddy with a camera.
post #59 of 63
Don't give up hope - you'll find a friend someday!
post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
I think what it all comes down to is this:

There are people who enjoy carving a bazillion short radius turns under the lifts to try and impress everyone with thier flawless HH-approved technique while thier buddy videotapes them for later online discussions involving the minute intricacies of hard snow carving technique and then there are people who ski because it's fun.
But don't you realize that people who don't carve well are bad people. Carving cleanlieness is next to Godliness, so those who prefer carving are actually morally superior skiers.
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