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Is the Twin replacing the all mountain ski? - Page 2

post #31 of 50
I picked up a pair of Rossi Dirty Birds in a 176 last Spring. Got a pair of Look P12's on Steep n Cheap and have a total of $300 in the whole lot.

these are going to be my all mountain skis this year. I'm also looking for a pair of quick turning all purpose shorties for some beer leagues this Winter.
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
I see the Bridge with a 92 waist being reviewed as "Bashes Crud; floats and pivots on fluff; carves a trench on corduroy"
The Bridge has my curiosity and if I were to buy a pair it would be my first twin tip. I can hear the youngsters, "look at the old guy on the twin tips". Which is what I would say, too.:

The Bridge seems like an evolved Karma. The Karma was highly regarded and so far this ski is getting rave reviews. I think it could be a great EC ski.

My Volkl 724 Pro's had a up-turned tail. I used to step on it from time to time and lose my edge. Hoping that won't happen on the twin tip.
post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
My Volkl 724 Pro's had a up-turned tail. I used to step on it from time to time and lose my edge. Hoping that won't happen on the twin tip.
Rogan can help you with that...

I find the twin pretty irritating when skating, but worth it anyway.
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
The Bridge has my curiosity and if I were to buy a pair it would be my first twin tip. I can hear the youngsters, "look at the old guy on the twin tips". Which is what I would say, too.:

The Bridge seems like an evolved Karma. The Karma was highly regarded and so far this ski is getting rave reviews. I think it could be a great EC ski.

My Volkl 724 Pro's had a up-turned tail. I used to step on it from time to time and lose my edge. Hoping that won't happen on the twin tip.
There are a couple of old guys I saw weekend in/weekend doin laps on Outer Limits and they were skiing Pocket Rockets. They were real old...like mid 50's or something.
post #35 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
The Bridge has my curiosity and if I were to buy a pair it would be my first twin tip. I can hear the youngsters, "look at the old guy on the twin tips". Which is what I would say, too.:

The Bridge seems like an evolved Karma. The Karma was highly regarded and so far this ski is getting rave reviews.
I think it could be a great EC ski.
Like a Karma on Steriods?
I am intrigued. Maybe we can check them out when we hook up to ski again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
There are a couple of old guys I saw weekend in/weekend doin laps on Outer Limits and they were skiing Pocket Rockets. They were real old...like mid 50's or something.
Not at all like a 40 something on the seths?

*notice I didn't say anything about the physical shape, being round
post #36 of 50
I don't think I would equate the Bridge to a Karma on steroids and I can't see it as a first choice for the easties in this width range. The Bridge is a pretty compliant ski that feels to me very much equivelant to a narrower Gotama. This makes it a superb soft snow ski and it is of course much more nimble than the Gotama. The Bridge skis well on firmish snow but I wouldn't say it is stellar.

I don't obsess over cores and constructions so I didn't bother to ask whether the Bridge has metal or not (I just don't care). It might, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that it doesn't. But like the Gotama, that is one of the things that makes the Bridge shine....it is very easy to ski. The mediumish flex of the Bridge is what will make it acceptable and forgiving for wide range of skiers. I personally would prefer it to be built exactly the same except without the twin...but that's just me. For me, the twin offers no advantages at all.

SJ
post #37 of 50
As someone who skied a 92mm wide twintip in the east last season I have to concur that they can be a lot of fun as an every day ski in the east.
post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
I can't see it as a first choice for the easties in this width range. The Bridge is a pretty compliant ski that feels to me very much equivelant to a narrower Gotama.

SJ
SJ, I was also looking at the Karma last season, but the Bridge caught my attention.

Then there's the Mantra. Would you equate this ski to the Bridge or is the Gotama closer. And, how about a Mantra for the EC. I have plenty of friends who ski it and love it here - not as a one ski quiver. It works well here as does the Karma.

I want something wide. My Top Fuels are fantastic skis, but I can drive them to dirt in soft snow. They really rip it up and I'd say that something for soft snow and crud in the woods would be a nice addition.

I was also like the flat mount. Very open to suggestions.

bz
post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
There are a couple of old guys I saw weekend in/weekend doin laps on Outer Limits and they were skiing Pocket Rockets. They were real old...like mid 50's or something.
err...or a 43 y/o on Mojo90's? What does age have to do with TT's anyway? Does this mean I have to start wearing black ski pants and Spyder Legend jackets? :
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
err...or a 43 y/o on Mojo90's? What does age have to do with TT's anyway? Does this mean I have to start wearing black ski pants and Spyder Legend jackets? :
Boy are you way off. Black is so lame. Think camo and khaki and buying jackets & pants a couple sizes too big.
post #41 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
err...or a 43 y/o on Mojo90's? What does age have to do with TT's anyway? Does this mean I have to start wearing black ski pants and Spyder Legend jackets? :
Make sure your ski pants are pulled up to your arm pits
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post

Not at all like a 40 something on the seths?

*notice I didn't say anything about the physical shape, being round
Kinda like that.
post #43 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
SJ, I was also looking at the Karma last season, but the Bridge caught my attention.

Then there's the Mantra. Would you equate this ski to the Bridge or is the Gotama closer. And, how about a Mantra for the EC. I have plenty of friends who ski it and love it here - not as a one ski quiver. It works well here as does the Karma.

I want something wide. My Top Fuels are fantastic skis, but I can drive them to dirt in soft snow. They really rip it up and I'd say that something for soft snow and crud in the woods would be a nice addition.

I was also like the flat mount. Very open to suggestions.

bz
Depends on what you want the ski for.

The Mantra, while not my fave as a soft snow ski, grips really well on hard snow....But you already have a great hard snow ski.

The Bridge is very like a narrow Gotama. In fact, if one were to band saw 'em in half, I expect that the cross sections would look much alike. The Bridge is reasonably damp which is an area that I always thought the Karma was lacking. The Bridge does not suk on hard snow, but it doesn't really shine there either.

I would choose the Bridge over the Mantra any day and twice on Sunday if the goal was soft, broken snow and shaved off slurpee stuff. If it hadn't snowed lately, I could probably figure out that my TF's would be the choice for the day.

If you really want a wideish ski that skis well on hard snow and it has to be a flat mount, then the Mantra makes sense (you can just accept the soft snow tradeoffs inherent with that choice) This is not suggest that the Mantra sux in soft snow....it doesn't.....but there are better choices.

So what is it you want? a wideish ski that excells on the hard stuff or one that favors the soft??

SJ
post #44 of 50
I may be in the minority, but I loved my Mantras in the soft snow and hated 'em in the hard. In fact for all of the 2005/2006 killer pow season all I rode was the Mantra. However, this past season, with the less than stellar pow condtions I began to feel that the 177 I was riding was too short for what I wanted (in terms of how it worked on groomers and at speed...it still slayed the moguls at that length, but was a big squirrely everywhere else).

That said, I only bumped up 3cm to the 180 AK King Salmon, which I feel is a much more well-rounded ski than the Mantra and it has very similiar dimensions (to the first and second gen Mantra). It seems to have more pop and better edge grip and feels a wee bit stiffer.

Might want to peep 'em out...though they are getting a bit rare since AK has stopped making skis for the Americas and gone back to focusing solely on Euro race design.
post #45 of 50
dook:

You may or may not be in the minority but it all comes down to focus. If you ski a Mantra in soft snow and that's all you have (or all you skied on) then you'll probably like it, and as I mentioned...it doesn't suk. But compared to what?? The Bridge is a far better choice for that condition. Then again, the issue that I have with the Mantra on hard snow is the harshness or lack of dampening. You combine that with very high torsional stiffness, light weight, and a lot of shape, and yeah you get a ski that can feel nervous or "bouncy" on rough snow. The Mantra does grip very well. The grip however is only a part of what I personally look at for hard snow. I think one reason you may like the AK is the straighter shape. This is an attribute that makes a ton of sense for a rough conditions ski. Unfortunately fashion is dictating that wide with big shape is a profitable marketing trend. As in many things, the trends may not always be the best things to follow.

SJ
post #46 of 50
Nice analysis SJ!

"If you ski a Mantra in soft snow and that's all you have (or all you skied on) then you'll probably like it, and as I mentioned...it doesn't suk. But compared to what?? The Bridge is a far better choice for that condition. Then again, the issue that I have with the Mantra on hard snow is the harshness or lack of dampening. You combine that with very high torsional stiffness, light weight, and a lot of shape, and yeah you get a ski that can feel nervous or "bouncy" on rough snow."

That totally sums up my experience with my Mantra.

For the 2005/2006 season that was one of the first "shaped" skis I owned after spending close to 15 years on nothing more than a pair of 7S's.

Thus the Mantra was my very first "fat" ski. I loved it compared to what I had been riding powder in prior (the skinny 7S). That said I found it incredibly "bouncy" or skittish on hard snow unless I really focused on it. First season on it I got tossed in icy conditions. Second season I managed to navigate Milk Run at Telluride on a complete ice day and as long as i dug and grinded, it was decent.

That's funny about the "straightness" of the AK, since I absolutely hated the Explosiv for the very same reason (but I believe it's also a much beefier ski, weight-wise than the AK). I honestly don't know what it is about the AK, I just know that after a solid day of demoing it and then spending the remainder of the 2007 season on it, the Mantras immediately went up on the block (my only regret is that I never tried the Mantra in a 185...might have felt differently about that one).

The shape of the AK must be the thing, though, as Cirque and X-East Coast both have ridden with me when I was on them and gave 'em a thorough flexing and lookover and felt they were pretty similar in flex to the Mantra.

I guess it all goes to show that skis are ultimately a personal preference!

post #47 of 50
The mantra excels at meduim radius turns at meduim speeds the gotama or bridge give up some stiffness/grip on hardsnow and in return are alot more playful than the mantra. IN fact the gotama is better at high speeds on hard pack than the mantra cause the sidecut never bothers you like the very turny mantra. When I broke 65 mph multiple times in one days it wasnt on the mantra it was on gotamas on groomers. I would never want to go that fast on my mantras.

Twin tip can and do = "all mountain" ski in many cases

also remember labels are stupid and no ski is truly all mountain.

Only reason we have labels is because you cant sell something with out a new flashly name.
post #48 of 50
Talked today with a friend about the Bridge and this twin-tip thing. His take was that in a way, the Bridge is not a true twin-tip because it is an all mountain ski as opposed to a park ski. Volkl's park ski is the next one down. The Bridge is mounted more traditionally, while the true twin-tip is mounted in the center.

Hell, I don't know but it sounds somewhat true?
post #49 of 50
The Bridge is an all mountain twin. The Wall is a park and pipe ski.
post #50 of 50
Of course this all will depend upon what the meaning of IS..........IS**

** with all due and totally insincere apologies to W.J.C.........:

SJ
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