BK, Please don't confuse Max's posts with mine. I am not Max and will not answer for him. FWIW, I am not on that team.
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a "banana turn," but what you call a benefit is actually a limitation. If you can control it to create as much edge engagement as you want, it's too hard for most people to get more edge engagement than they already are comfortable with. That's the advantage of outrigger turns: they create as much edge engagement as possible. Once you are comfortable with that, it's easy to get that high edge using ordinary turn entries. The fact that outriggers don't always get full weight transfer on the first try, or that they require no recognizable effective movements, is immaterial. They are still part of the fastest way to learn a high edge angle.
The same is true of pivot slips, or side stepping up the hill. They don't duplicate high level effective movements very closely, but they pretty quickly teach you where your center is, and something about edge engagement as well.
The banana turn:
Stand sideways across the hill. Begin a descent at say 30 degrees, feet parallel. Start flexing the uphill leg. The legs will separate, and the tracks will widen, the weight will transfer to the downhill ski. Extend the uphill leg for the skis to come back toghether. The tracks leave a banana shape in the snow.
No one "balks" at this drill. It takes only a couple of tries for the skier to have full weight transfer to the downhill ski, they can even get their knee up under their chest with very little weight on it. They do get more engagement than they are used to because the movement pattern of independent leg flexion is far different from what they commonly do, and the directive on how much flexion to use is an external cue - until the uphill knee touches the chest. It's new and is a clean break with their old balance methods.
Originally Posted by si
Thus, while it may be effective for some skiers in some situations to just learn to identify the goal and develop the movements for themselves, I would expect that coaching of effective movements to achieve the desired goal (outcome/skill), along with appropriate experience or cues for assessing outcome, is generally the most effective means of progression.
Sure, they need to know how to evaluate their own success.
eg. flex low between turns. How low? Grab your ankles low. Success is easily measured, and deep flexion between turns is being done -- the movement is being established by the exploration of it's range. Then, identifying the outcome/focussing on the desire result will help. Here's what we do and here's what it is for.....
How to flex? Use the legs, don't reach with the upper body alone.
OTOH, if one tries to teach this by becoming aware of pressure changes under the feet (one outcome) you will have much less success. Especially when teaching a 7 yr old. It's all about movements when a student lacks the vocabulary, body awareness and reflective/analytic skills -- which many students, not just 7 yr olds, lack.