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Turning on a high spot

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
One of the tactics for making turns is to lighten the new inside ski. One way to do this is to let the terrain help you lighten the ski by not fighting the lift provided by a high spot on the slope. How many of you have tried for looking for high spots to make your turns on?
post #2 of 23
A regular part of my steep skiing, because I'm lazy.
post #3 of 23
Not just the inside ski ... it's fun to air out the entire transition.

Play, play, play....
post #4 of 23
I like to play around with doing transitions just after I leave the high spot. I use the ground falling away as the unweighting movement/moment.

It reminds me of the days when rural roads had "tummy jumps" in them. When there was a little hill that dropped away and if your Mom or Dad crested the hill at just the right speed you got the "WOOO" feeling in the pit of your stomach. : I just loved those. I was a coaster freak at a young age. Too bad we've designed most of those out of roads today.

Playing on skis gives me the same feelings. I search out those fun whoop-tee-doos and play on them.
post #5 of 23
Yes, even on flat and moderate pitches. It's another form of turning (pivoting) in addition to carving and skidding. Look for the spots of choppy snow--if it's sunny, these appear to be greyer than the surrounding *snow*. When I'm teaching friends and they've advanced to the lower intermediate stage, I always point this out and tell them to turn right on top of it. It's a bit counter-intuitive and they usually think the snow will be heavy and they'll get hung up. But, invariably it helps them in making pivot turns.

Bryan
post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco View Post
Not just the inside ski ... it's fun to air out the entire transition.

Play, play, play....
Yeah!!!! Leapers!!!! In the bumps!!!! Long turns!!! Yeah!!!: Makes me pee a little.
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
One of the tactics for making turns is to lighten the new inside ski. One way to do this is to let the terrain help you lighten the ski by not fighting the lift provided by a high spot on the slope. How many of you have tried for looking for high spots to make your turns on?
I use this technique with great frequency, especially in extremely difficult refozen hell conditions where chicken heads can cause deflection making turning a grievous chore, and in moguls where I use the lift to pivot around my poles.
post #8 of 23
Use it often, teach it spring conditions!
post #9 of 23
It's been called terrain unweighting forever. My 1960s era PSIA manual refers to the three types of unweighting as Up, Down and Terrain.
post #10 of 23
I was sure we all used it.

Also handy when teaching someone to get over their fears during the introduction to the dreaded "black diamond syndrome". I used to have the victim .... er .... student ... follow me through a three turn progression to a stop and would always add terrain features to help us.
post #11 of 23
Lighten both skis. Absorb the high spot by vigorously pulling the feet up, especially lighten and flatten the old outside ski (before it becomes the new inside ski), allow the body to cross over the skis, pull both feet back strongly to re-center, edge to redirect the skis, and ski away.

I didn't know terrain unweighting was any different from down-unweighting. Maybe because it is less intentional???

The only other folks I've heard referring to chickenheads were some Aussies cat skiing in B.C. It was Spring, fresh snow was overdue, and the big lumps of frozen snow that fell off tree boughs were chickenheads. To be avoided at all costs....
post #12 of 23

...now we are finally skiing again....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
I didn't know terrain unweighting was any different from down-unweighting. Maybe because it is less intentional???
I have given this some serious thaught and came to the solution that there is no "down"-unweighing. Well, actually there is but its really "up"-unweighting. The same as "terrain"-unweighting really is also just UU. The reason for this is that what unweightis your skis in UU is when your limbs are extended to maximum and as they stop extending your still upward moving mass lifts you up a bit before the up-moovement has braked to cero and you fall back down again. To properly DU, according to popular ski terminology, you would have to stand tall and flex. Try it right here in front of the computer. Try to pivot 90deg to one side. It is not possible by DU. If you UU it is really easy, its like jumping. So, what is a DU then... yes, its the exact same jumping move but insted of jumping up you keep that movement below your waist and unweight from there. Same applies to TU. You use a bump or a pile of snow to unweight. I use a technique I call a pre-turn techique where I make a small jabb in the snow and DU with my leggs. If linked, they could be called fish hook turns.

therusty, the answere is yes, and thanks for a good topic .
post #13 of 23
tdk6 wrote: "I have given this some serious thaught and came to the solution that there is no "down"-unweighing. Well, actually there is but its really "up"-unweighting."

I disagree. Downward down-weighting is easy to prove with a bathrom scale (a dial type, not a digital one). When you start tall and then flex your legs and push down (that is, when you squat), there is a moment as you reach the bottom when your weight decreases. I think it has to do with deceleration (but I forget). Anyway, at that moment, you seem to become lighter and this can be used to turn. Watch the scale dial move higher than your real weight and then drop lower--it's not because the dial is over-compenasting, although that affects the amount the scale wight drops. I can do it on skis SOMETIMES.

Besides that, with soft, non-carving skis it's relativly easy to shift your weight down and outwards at the same time and get your skis to change direction.
post #14 of 23
It doesn't have to be about unweighting and pivoting.
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesB View Post
It doesn't have to be about unweighting and pivoting.
No, it can be about anticipating and reacting can't it?
post #16 of 23
Geladesprung!
Exploiting a terrain feature to facilitate an edge change requires us to not fully absorb the bump, or to not extend enough to press the skis down into the trough on the back side of the terrain feature. Which is totally different from a retraction turn, which is the result of flexing to lessen the pressure. What they have in common is they make an edge change easier due to the momentary weightlessness.

I am assuming the edge change is happening while the skier is moving across the hill (through the transition from one turn to the next) which means the CoM is being deflected upward instead of being released down the hill. Which also means the CoM is still inside the old turn at the transition, which makes a smooth release hard. Although I must say it makes a great recentering move if you get caught too far inside the turn at the transition.

Flattening the skis without the gelande' is another option but it requires a leap of faith to project the CoM down the hill and let the skis go flat on the snow surface. It has been my experience that somewhere around trainers acred you will begin to see this maneuver so it does take quite a lot of confidence to execute it consistently.
So while it is fun to pop we need to remember that this will creep into the rest of your skiing if it becomes your exclusive tactic on steep terrain.
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by bl2000 View Post
I disagree. Downward down-weighting is easy to prove with a bathrom scale (a dial type, not a digital one). When you start tall and then flex your legs and push down (that is, when you squat), there is a moment as you reach the bottom when your weight decreases.
I disagree.... as you reach the bottom your weight INCREASES! When you DU your weight decreases when you start flexing, squatting. You need to be darn quick at it because you need to beat gravity. Anyway, thats not how you unweight in an elequant relaxed manner.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
One of the tactics for making turns is to lighten the new inside ski. One way to do this is to let the terrain help you lighten the ski by not fighting the lift provided by a high spot on the slope. How many of you have tried for looking for high spots to make your turns on?
Of course, if a pivoted entry is desired.

The high spot isn't all that useful for a fully weighted, completely carved transition and entry (although you can still play with it). For many situations where you might want to pivot a little, the high spot can yield terrain unweighting and/or it can help the tips and tails to release even while the ski is fully weighted underfoot. Take your pick - let it "pop" you a little, let it push just your feet up, or maintain considerable pressure as you flatten your skis and rotate your feet when the tips and tails are flapping in the breeze. Or some blend. Play with those lumps! They're fun and don't need to be removed by the groomer.
post #19 of 23
I like doing this - sometimes I'll do it on a ridge (in the snow, not a death defying plummet type ridge). Even on moguls as someone mentioned you can pivot on the tops usually easier.

It's fun!
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
It's been called terrain unweighting forever. My 1960s era PSIA manual refers to the three types of unweighting as Up, Down and Terrain.
In the 80's a trainer (who will remain anonymous) added to the list of unweighting. Up, Down, Terrain, Rebound, Side to Side and Chemical (I disavow all knowledge of what that means).
post #21 of 23

the dirt

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
I disagree.... as you reach the bottom your weight INCREASES! When you DU your weight decreases when you start flexing, squatting. You need to be darn quick at it because you need to beat gravity. Anyway, thats not how you unweight in an elequant relaxed manner.
It's all in the D.I.R.T. Duration, Intensity, Rate and Timing. Think the Think!
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogonjon View Post
It's all in the D.I.R.T. Duration, Intensity, Rate and Timing. Think the Think!
If you start out tall just before the transition (bl2000 suggestion), could you please brake down the initiation with the dirt factor so that we can get a glimps at just when the pressure underneath our skis decrease and for how long in order for us to react and pivot our skis into a skidd.

Thanks in advance
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct55 View Post
I like doing this - sometimes I'll do it on a ridge (in the snow, not a death defying plummet type ridge). Even on moguls as someone mentioned you can pivot on the tops usually easier.

It's fun!
Its not only fun, thats one proper way of doing it.
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