or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › MA Comparison: Two Skiers Carving Turns
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

MA Comparison: Two Skiers Carving Turns - Page 2

post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
This is the forum.

I don't know if UL has any interest in racing or if he has ever done any [serious] racing, so putting him into a course would be unfair at best (IMO).

GREG
Little do you know !
post #32 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post
Little do you know !
We could have raced if you prefered... I just didn't think least amount of time to get down the hill was the end goal here. We can do the demo in a course next time if you prefer.

These discussions have given me some good ideas for things we could do next year though... :

Later

GREG
post #33 of 56
: A UL HS ski off ?? ok . First an age handicap is in order. We know those younger guys have trouble keeping up with the more experienced skiers.


Soooo. where and when ? Maybe Highway Star could establish the ground rules since he has experience in this kind of event.
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
First an age handicap is in order. We know those younger guys have trouble keeping up with the more experienced skiers.
Whew! For a minute there, I thought I was going to have to defend my husband's .....er..... ahhhh.....ummmm....honor??
post #35 of 56
Thread Starter 
Nah, UL and I are friendly with each other... no need for a ski-off. I can think of some people who UL would be willing to have a ski-off with, but I don't think that I am one of them. Or am I?

I will say however, that the old guy that I was busy trying to keep up with was not UL, but rather the gentleman holding the camera, who unfortunately was too busy filming to end up on the other end of the camera. This was also the same guy who jogged with his skis to the top of Peak 8 at Breck to take pictures of UL and I as we plodded our way to the summit (who needs oxygen to breathe anyway, right?).

Later

GREG
post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
Nah, UL and I are friendly with each other... no need for a ski-off. I can think of some people who UL would be willing to have a ski-off with, but I don't think that I am one of them.

This was also the same guy who jogged with his skis to the top of Peak 8 at Breck to take pictures of UL and I as we plodded our way to the summit (who needs oxygen to breathe anyway, right?).
Heluva and are are very friendly. No need for a competitive ski-off. But......I'll jump into the race course as long as Heluva will pull off a helicopter (I love rotation) in the bumps or go inverted (one revolution would be fine)

I think it would be a great idea for each of us to try to "look like the other" in the next set of videos. See how close we can get.

AND.....Heluvadad did just about jog at 14,000 feet. I hope he is in a good a shape as he is now when I get to be his age.....yeah....you all may need to read that one a few times. Dad kicks butt.
post #37 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post
Heluva and are are very friendly. No need for a competitive ski-off. But......I'll jump into the race course as long as Heluva will pull off a helicopter (I love rotation) in the bumps or go inverted (one revolution would be fine)
Spinning in bumps is easy... landing in bumps is tricky... Inverted... hm, now I am convinced you are trying to kill me - what did I ever do to you? Other than meet up with your favorite guide?

Quote:
I think it would be a great idea for each of us to try to "look like the other" in the next set of videos. See how close we can get.
You read my mind.

Quote:
AND.....Heluvadad did just about jog at 14,000 feet. I hope he is in a good a shape as he is now when I get to be his age.....yeah....you all may need to read that one a few times. Dad kicks butt.
You're lucky... I have to keep up with him year-round. Tomorrow we are riding around Keuka lake (roughly 60 miles). I am hoping that I will live to tell about it. Scarily I think he is in better shape now than when you saw him. : It is sad when you are doing a few thousand feet of climbing on a road bike and your 50 year old dad is right there with you, cheering you on every step of the way... while riding circles around you [literally]. I am convinced he isn't human.

Later

GREG
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
Spinning in bumps is easy... landing in bumps is tricky... Inverted... hm, now I am convinced you are trying to kill me - what did I ever do to you? Other than meet up with your favorite guide?



You read my mind.



You're lucky... I have to keep up with him year-round. Tomorrow we are riding around Keuka lake (roughly 60 miles). I am hoping that I will live to tell about it. Scarily I think he is in better shape now than when you saw him. : It is sad when you are doing a few thousand feet of climbing on a road bike and your 50 year old dad is right there with you, cheering you on every step of the way... while riding circles around you [literally]. I am convinced he isn't human.

Later

GREG
Don't you just hate that. Kick ass Dad.
post #39 of 56
Greg is exhibiting a movement based skiiing style. In contrast, Greg is displaying a skill based form of execution.
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Greg is exhibiting a movement based skiiing style. In contrast, Greg is displaying a skill based form of execution.
Smart A$$
post #41 of 56
Greg, I stand corrected, you are right, it is a ski technique forum not a race forum, in that case either skier is getting it done, different inputs but certainly nothing wrong with either skier. I prefer skier 1 because of his style,more of the racy kind but skier 2 is just fine, a little more of the old school which is where I am from. The new slalom type skis today ask for more of the skier1 type of skiing, in the bumps though, I will put my money on skier2. Rob
post #42 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherman89 View Post
in the bumps though, I will put my money on skier2.
Very smart place to put your money.
post #43 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
Your turn shape defines your speed acquisition. For one, HH, doesn't gain speed unless he allows it to happen . A carve is using your edges to make a clean track and is a powerful turn. That alone doesn't define how you pick up speed. To say that you have to constantly gain speed to carve properly is not true.

Staying in the fall line or not shaping your turns at the top and bottom of the turn will increase speed. A racer uses carving to keep their speed from being dissipated. A skid will scrub speed. A recreational skier is not on a closed course and has limitations, in places, of their speed.
Carved or not it is turn shape that defines speed control or lack of it.
You are partly right, one way of controlling your speed is by turn shape. But still you will be gaining speed as you start your turn at the high C and you will accelerate untill you are way past the fall line in the low C part of the turn. Same applies to wedging. I teach this method of speedcontroll to all my students. However, turn shape is not a very reliable way of controlling your speed since the braking factor is limited to finnishing the turns way accross the hill and long traverses.
post #44 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmiser View Post
Skier 1 skis in a more aggressive fashion than Skier 2. He skis like a racer. Skier 2 is more graceful and rhythmic. I think that I see a little 1-2 in his skiing though. (Sequential edge change).
agree. skier 1 is much more dynamic.
post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by carver_hk View Post
agree. skier 1 is much more dynamic.
If you look at the bump comparisson thread, do you still think that skier 1 is more dynamic?
post #46 of 56
It's hard to believe that the footage is on the same trail, same day; maybe, different parts of the same trial. Skier 1 is able to get up to speed and apply significant forces (thanks to centripetal/centrifugal force) to dynamically move his cm in turns. Skier 2, despite poling to get going, lets the skis go through some turns while his cm doesn't turn as much. Skier 1 is skiing more on his edges, using sidecut and tipping almost exclusively to shape his turns. Skier 2 is shaping his turns with sidecut and tipping, but also with significant pivoting about the boot centre. I would like to see skier 2 carve some turns at higher speeds and actually move his body across the hill more, before making further comparisons.
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
If you look at the bump comparisson thread, do you still think that skier 1 is more dynamic?
sorry, went through the other replies and cant see where the bump clips are.
post #48 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carver_hk View Post
sorry, went through the other replies and cant see where the bump clips are.
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=57516
post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
skier1 looks like having the same trouble as i do. he carve on moguls. i think 2 problems with skier1. carving on mogul can not kill speed. and wide stance on mogul will greatly affect his balance. skier2 is obviously a great mogul skier.
post #50 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
It's hard to believe that the footage is on the same trail, same day; maybe, different parts of the same trial.
The footage was shot one right after the other and I think Heluva went first on this run. The guy in the green jacket visable in Heluava's run is my brother in law and we were skiing in a group with my wife, my sister in law and a few others. Heluva went more down the center of the trail and I was more toward the edge. The terrain is quite consistant.

By the way....you have seen this trail before, with others skiing it, here on Epic.
post #51 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post
The footage was shot one right after the other and I think Heluva went first on this run. The guy in the green jacket visable in Heluava's run is my brother in law and we were skiing in a group with my wife, my sister in law and a few others. Heluva went more down the center of the trail and I was more toward the edge. The terrain is quite consistant.

By the way....you have seen this trail before, with others skiing it, here on Epic.
Actually, UL, I think your run ended about where mine began in this particular one (possibly just below me). You are correct though that the pitch is nearly the same all the way down (blue groomer?) - with the exception of my last two or three larger turns where it gets steeper and dumps onto a very crowded dynamic slalom course. Your section was actually better for filming because there were less people... I recall having to wait for the crowd to disperse for quite awhile before I could make this run without anyone being between the camera and I.

I wish we had the "instructor turns" that I did right after this run but unfortunately the videographer was getting impatient and wanted to actually ski on some of his vacation... UL - you were right behind me I think - I'll let you vouch for my "instructor turn" capabilities.

Later

GREG
post #52 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
I will say however, that the old guy that I was busy trying to keep up with was not UL, but rather the gentleman holding the camera, who unfortunately was too busy filming to end up on the other end of the camera. This was also the same guy who jogged with his skis to the top of Peak 8 at Breck to take pictures of UL and I as we plodded our way to the summit (who needs oxygen to breathe anyway, right?).
Yeah, heluvadad certainly beat all of us up there. I was the one sucking wind behind Greg1 and Greg2 . (You can imagine what a nightmare the names were.) I hadn't been that exhausted since double sessions of football.

Here's Heluvadad's shot of G1 and G2:



And here's me, G3, barely visible



That was a great day, I'd ski with you all again any time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
I wish we had the "instructor turns" that I did right after this run but unfortunately the videographer was getting impatient and wanted to actually ski on some of his vacation... UL - you were right behind me I think - I'll let you vouch for my "instructor turn" capabilities.
+1 vouch. (especially the ones on one ski, switch)
post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
Interesting thread and interesting posts. Heres my IMHO.

Comments about Heluva picking up speed indicates some lack of understanding for efficient carving (arching) because when done right you not only keep yourself from loosing speed in every turn, you actually pick up speed at every turn. According to European pist-coloring you cannot carve down a read slope without serious speed controll issues. If you can then you are not doing it right. Heluva is doing it right thats why he is flying down the slope.

Also the comment about Heluva not making it through an afterwards set imaginary SL track is rediculous since he has succesfully made it through thousands of SL runs with great success in his still young years.

These two threads show two skiers with different styles ski two different kind of terrains. The interesting part I find is that both skiers are unable to adapt properly for both terrains and could therefore be considered not very versatile. UL shines in the bumps with his smooth skiing and great feel for the terrain and his nice absorbion of bumps and flexing/extending legs but looks oldfashion A-framed and over rotated on groomed snow with outside ski braking out in every turn. Heluva outskis most skiers on groomed with his no compromize carving (arching) skills but lacks proper flexing and extending in the bumps. Actually, if you look at Heluva he also lacks flexing and extending on groomed runs as well. Look at how his head moves up and down every turn. This doesent hurt him hardly at all on groomed runs but when he goes into the bumps it is poison. We have a very good jr racer, a girl, that skis very similair to Heluva. She is a one trick pony, she was coached that way. That is the downside of serious racing.
GREAT post.

The lack of flexion/extension might contribute to the trouble he has with off snow conditions too.

Also, great skiers can gain speed or scrub speed at will without getting out of rythym.
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattchuck2 View Post
GREAT post.

Also, great skiers can gain speed or scrub speed at will without getting out of rythym.
How?
post #55 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
How?
Mattchuck2 is probably not refering to a 121212 kind of rhythm. Skier, terrain, gear, mood, speed, strength, technique etc all form a rhythm which is important to keep up with as we ski. Its like a polyrhythm. Like second line drumming. Consisting of more than one beat. You need to be prepared for the unexpected.
post #56 of 56
Yeah, that's what I meant.

I needed the right word, but I couldn't really think of it . . . Maybe "flow" would have been better, or "smoothness".
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › MA Comparison: Two Skiers Carving Turns