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Black diamond crossbow AT set up.

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hey there,
I am planning on putting a Naxo NX21 binding on the black diamond crossbow. I was wondering how this will feel compared to my current downhill set up. Which is very standard, Cheap bindings, salomon 720's. Anyway, I ski mostly at resort, but when I'm at the resorts spend most or all my day(If it's Jay Peak) in the woods. My reason for choosing the set up was I wanted I ski that I could climb on when doing some true back country. The binding was as close to a downhill binding As I could find so I decided that would be good for when I'm not in the woods. Is the Crossbow designed as a telemark ski? Will it work well with what I am skiing now? Is there a problem using a telemark ski for most downhill use but with some flat and uphill?

Thanks
post #2 of 16
Thread Starter 
I forgot to mention that I am 5'8" but when the ski season comes maybe 5'10" 130lbs size 12.5 boot (US) And am an aggressive skiier that will ski anything.
post #3 of 16
nes:

You'll like the Naxos.

I've not skied the Crossbows. It's probably been five years since I've skied any of the BD models. That said, I've heard VERY good things about that ski as an all-around backcountry and in-resort ski. At your light weight, I would think it would be a good choice for most anything other than GS arcs on hard groomers.

Sounds like a cool rig. Have fun.
post #4 of 16
That's a good setup and you should have no problems with it. How it feels compared to your current setup will depend on how you like yor current setup. Given your self-description, you're likely to prefer the Crossbow/Naxo setup to your other one.

The Crossbow is designed as a backcountry ski - either AT or tele. There is no real difference between AT and tele skis except maybe the flex - tele skis tend to flex a little softer and rounder than AT, but it's problematic because some alpine/AT skis have softer, rounder flexes than some tele skis...anyway it's a can of worms so ignore whether a ski is "alpine/AT" or "tele" and acquire it (or not) just because it meets your skiing style and needs.

One thing, you might consider the new Marker Duke binding if you're not going to do too much backcountry - it's looking like the AT binding that will have the most alpine-like performance. Heavier, but beefier. Just a thought.
post #5 of 16
Hey, Bob. Do you feel there are any concerns with buying the first iteration of the Duke?

I saw a pair (didn't ski on them) last spring and they look really bombproof, but we've seen quite a few AT-bindings where the first model year seems to have experienced fairly significant problems.

I'm just wondering if you've talked with anyone who's got a fair amount of time on them.
post #6 of 16
Bob,
Evan's (my son's) comment: Wouldn't trust it.

But I'm sure you could guess that. (To put that into perspective for others, my son is a bid mountain competition participant and skis/hucks fairly hard).
post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Si View Post
Bob,
Evan's (my son's) comment: Wouldn't trust it.

But I'm sure you could guess that. (To put that into perspective for others, my son is a bid mountain competition participant and skis/hucks fairly hard).
If *I* were Evan, the only thing I'd trust is Hermann Maier's downhill bindings?

Did he say what concerned him about the Duke, or was it just that he's had "retention" problems with AT bindings in general?

Edited to add that I have a pair of Naxo 021's. I'm not nearly as wild about them as an *uphill* binding as many people seem to be, but they sure do feel solid in downhill mode.
post #8 of 16
Hope we're not hijacking the thread.

I've talked with several people who skied the Duke hard last year, and to a one, they loved it. One guy is switching every binding in his quiver. Yes, they are a new design. However, they are a burly new design, making the likelihood of catastrophic failure in the woods fairly low. If there turns out to be a reparable design flaw, I'd be very surprised if Marker didn't stand strongly behind them and fix the problems gratis.


To the original poster: Sounds like you're probably in your early to mid teens, and have a lot more growth to do. One thing you might want to think about is whether you can reasonably expect to get more than one season out of these skis. On the plus side, the bindings should last you for years, since it sounds like your feet have probably stopped growing. Also, although you're fairly tall, you're still fairly light, so you should be able to get good float without a terribly wide ski.

So if I were you, I'd think seriously about buying a good sturdy AT binding (Naxo and Duke are both probably good options), and maybe a less expensive ski. The Crossbow is a decent deal at $410, but for half that, SierraJim will sell you the 171 Armada AR-5, 175 Armada AR-V, 163 Atomic Snoop Daddy, 169 K2 Public Enemy, or 172 Line Chronic Blend. Then the following year, you can move the bindings to a larger ski and sell the old one without taking much of a hit.
post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
If *I* were Evan, the only thing I'd trust is Hermann Maier's downhill bindings?

Did he say what concerned him about the Duke, or was it just that he's had "retention" problems with AT bindings in general?

Edited to add that I have a pair of Naxo 021's. I'm not nearly as wild about them as an *uphill* binding as many people seem to be, but they sure do feel solid in downhill mode.
Well, 1) it was a Marker, 2) He still didn't think the design was adequate (he has broken 2 Freerides as well as a number of alpine bindings, including his Look Race binding - din 18). He wants to make his own custom AT setup with his binding, Look turntable - din 18, mounted on a solid metal plate that has a pin hinge in front and a solid lockdown at the heel that can be realeased for climbing with skins. As you might guess he doesn't care about the weight for climbing in relation to the stability for going down.

However, I think he might eventually come around and consider the Duke. (Fathers are always hopeful their sons might see reason some time!)
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post


To the original poster: Sounds like you're probably in your early to mid teens, and have a lot more growth to do. One thing you might want to think about is whether you can reasonably expect to get more than one season out of these skis. On the plus side, the bindings should last you for years, since it sounds like your feet have probably stopped growing. Also, although you're fairly tall, you're still fairly light, so you should be able to get good float without a terribly wide ski.

So if I were you, I'd think seriously about buying a good sturdy AT binding (Naxo and Duke are both probably good options), and maybe a less expensive ski. The Crossbow is a decent deal at $410, but for half that, SierraJim will sell you the 171 Armada AR-5, 175 Armada AR-V, 163 Atomic Snoop Daddy, 169 K2 Public Enemy, or 172 Line Chronic Blend. Then the following year, you can move the bindings to a larger ski and sell the old one without taking much of a hit.
well I was thinking about getting the 171cm crossbow And just keeping it for a while. How tall do you think I could be before I was to big for the ski?
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
About the DIN on both the duke and the NX21 yes the duke has 16 and the NX21 "only" has 13. I am planning to crank it all the way to 13. WIll I have any problems if I am just skiing aggresively through the trees and not going of any serious drops? How high a drop could the NX21's hold up to if I was landing on hardpack. (I'm saying hardpack even though It would probably be pow, because you just sink in pow and that would probably not "use" The 13 DIn)
post #12 of 16
I never run bindings at maximum or minimum DIN. But at 130 pounds into size 12.5 boots (DIN drops as boot sole length increases), 13 DIN seems like overkill for anything other than comps. But what do I know.

I have no experience hucking on AT gear. You should ask about that on tetongravity.com/forums. But I'd be concerned about hucking on a foam core ski more than on a 13-DIN binding.

Black Diamond suggests that the 171 should work for 115–175 lb, although they suggest the 179 for 155-205 lb.

I'm still not sure that it sounds like the right ski for primarily inbounds use. Here's Couloir's review:

post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
So 13 DIN isn't a problem. That's great. I think I'm definetly gonna get the naxo's considering their cheaper. And my 2 Tuckerman's and Big jay. So I think that I'll get enough out of the Crossbow for it to be worth getting.
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Hey, Bob. Do you feel there are any concerns with buying the first iteration of the Duke?

I saw a pair (didn't ski on them) last spring and they look really bombproof, but we've seen quite a few AT-bindings where the first model year seems to have experienced fairly significant problems.

I'm just wondering if you've talked with anyone who's got a fair amount of time on them.
I don't know anyone who's put a lot of time in on the Dukes and I know exactly what you mean about buying the first iteration of something. The people I know that have skied them thought they were very promising and seemed bomber...but without the milage you can't be certain I guess.

All that said, I envision the Duke as being used primarily in sidecountry or slackcountry due to the weight and high DIN. So I guess, in my chauvinistic way, that I wasn't figuring the reliability to be quite as serious a matter like it might be with a mainly bc binder. Color me a bit embarrassed.

But hey, someone's got to test it.
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandskier View Post
So 13 DIN isn't a problem.
I don't know that I'd say that. But assuming that your boot sole length is over 331mm and a type III, standard DIN methodology would put you at 5.5 DIN. Even if you tweak it a bit, to III+ or III++, that puts you at 6.5 or 8.

As I understand it, Naxos start with less slop than, say, Freerides, but they get sloppier faster.
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
I took the plunge and got the crossbows. They were on sale for $260 and i couldn't resist. Now I really can't wait for winter.
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