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Whats your favorite courses rating/slope?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
While doing a little statitical analysis of my (poor) game of late I got wondering what is the course rating and slope of the courses most of us play.

My home track in Breckenridge is a Nicklaus Signature course with three nines. Combining the nines here are the course ratings and slopes from the back tees where I beat myself in to abject humility on a regular basis. (The nines are named for our native wildlife we frequently see on the course).

Combo Course Rating Slope
Beaver/Bear 73.9 147
Bear/Elk 74.0 145
Elk/Beaver 73.5 151 (My favorite)

For those of you unfamiliar with these numbers here are the USGA definitions:

Scratch Golfer
A “scratch golfer” is a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses. A male scratch golfer, for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots at sea level. A female scratch golfer, for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 210 yards and can reach a 400-yard hole in two shots at sea level.


Slope Rating
A “Slope Rating” is the USGA's mark that indicates the measurement of the relative difficulty of a course for players who are not scratch golfers compared to the USGA Course Rating (e.g., compared to the difficulty of a course for scratch golfers). A Slope Rating is computed from the difference between the Bogey Rating and the USGA Course Rating. The lowest Slope Rating is 55 and the highest is 155. A golf course of standard playing difficulty has a Slope Rating of 113.

A couple of other definitions from the USGA will help

Bogey Golfer
A male “bogey golfer” is a player who has a Course Handicap of approximately 20 on a course of standard difficulty. He can hit tee shots an average of 200 yards and reach a 370-yard hole in two shots at sea level.

A female bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap of approximately 24 on a course of standard difficulty. She can hit tee shots an average of 150 yards and reach a 280-yard hole in two shots.

Bogey Rating
A “Bogey Rating” is the USGA's mark of the evaluation of the playing difficulty of a course for the bogey golfer under normal course and weather conditions. It is based on yardage, effective playing length, and other obstacles to the extent that they affect the scoring ability of the bogey golfer. Bogey Rating is equivalent to the average of the better half of a bogey golfer's scores under normal playing conditions.


Course ratings and slope can be found on your scorecard and will vary by the different tees on any course.
post #2 of 16
At my home course it 71.1/125 from the black tees and 73.4/130 from the tips. NCR South, where they held the Sr. Open in 2005, is 74.5/141.

I just played in the MVGA Metro at Troy CC. I believe it's 68.6/121. Shot 77-74 and missed the cut by 3 shots. Argh!
post #3 of 16
Given my limited exposure to golf, and the fact that this is only my second dedicated summer of golfing, I'm almost embarrassed to post in this thread.

My favourite, probably because its the course that broke my golf virginity:
MCGuires Resort

The Spruce Course Ratings

Rating Slope Yardage
Back
71.2 131 6439 Middle
69.6 125 6070 Forward
69.8 121 5027


Course I golf the most, because my friend lives across from its easy for her to get out:
Emerald Vale


The course that kicked my butt the hardest:
Wedgewood Golf club, Cadillac, MI
I'm trying to find the information for it, but my memory I think its
70.8/ 136

Whew!
I'll get better, right?
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
Given my limited exposure to golf, and the fact that this is only my second dedicated summer of golfing, I'm almost embarrassed to post in this thread.
Never be embarrased-we all have to learn.
Quote:
The course that kicked my butt the hardest:
Wedgewood Golf club, Cadillac, MI
I'm trying to find the information for it, but my memory I think its
70.8/ 136
136 is a pretty stout slope rating
post #5 of 16
I finally calculated my handicap at 18.4. That's as bogey as it gets.

I shot 87 (45/42) today at Bridger Creek from the front tees, 66.2/112. What was better was my daughter got an eagle on a par 5, after a 286 yard drive. She's the only person I know who has ever gotten an eagle. I sure hope she makes the team!

BC scorecard:
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
I finally calculated my handicap at 18.4. That's as bogey as it gets.

I shot 87 (45/42) today at Bridger Creek from the front tees, 66.2/112. What was better was my daughter got an eagle on a par 5, after a 286 yard drive. She's the only person I know who has ever gotten an eagle. I sure hope she makes the team!

BC scorecard:
Kudos to your daughter-best wished in her tryouts!!!
post #7 of 16
I really don't have a local course that I play regularly. I tend to hop around and play courses that have good deals. That being said, one of my favorite local courses in CO is Bear Dance down in Larkspur, though I don't get to play it often at all. Definitely one of the most difficult courses I've played, but equally as beautiful.

I still have yet to register to get my GHIN #, but I typically shoot in the mid-high 80's. Most of the time I hit one up from the tips, unless the course is easy, then I'll play from the tips. At Bear Dance though, I play from the blues. The tips are insane!




I've also had the pleasure of playing Breck last year, and it was incredible. I wish I could play it more often.
post #8 of 16
I am a golf whore because I play around. My home course is Little Bennett. I play from the back tees 73.2/137 6706 el about 400 feet. I've been playing Torrey Pines South Course a few times over the last few years. It's slope rating is insane. I play from the whites at 74.3/136 6885. The blues are 76.10/139 7227 and the back tees (which are not normally up and you need permission to play from) are 78.10/143 7607. TP is on the ocean, but it's about 200 feet above sea level.

My unofficial handicap (I do it online on a free site) went under 10.0 for the first time today. 270 yards is a 75% swing with my driver on flat hole with no wind (Sky Caddie is a wonderful toy- I hit one 278 today), so a 250 yard average is an easy standard averaging in my usual percentage of stinky misses. I can reach a 470 yd hole in two if the wind aint blowing dead at me 20 mph and it's not all uphill.

Silly me - this thread shows me more of what I don't know about golf. I thought a scratch golfer was a zero handicap. I thought the rating was what a scratch golfer should shoot on that course. It does not seem right to calculate your handicap based on your score relative to the rating and slope - get down to zero based on that and then find out you are not a scratch golfer when you get to a monster course. Not many pros break par at Torrey from the back tees.

Thanks for the info!
post #9 of 16
My very wealthy and nice bro in law is a member at Whistling Straits in Kohler WI. He invites me up twice a year to play for two days, usually 18 one day, 36 the other. We decided 36 is too much after last week. Work playing golf isn't what it's about. I digress.

Whistling Straits has two courses on it, Straits and Irish. If you haven't seen it, it is worth a destination trip, given you like to play golf and have some spare $$. Straits is walking only, have to have caddy, which is best way to play a course this tough. Local knowledge. I would consider it comparable to Pebble Beach in that on some 5-6 holes, you are shooting shots or looking right into Lake Michigan, which might as well be the Pacific. Wind always blows, really beautiful. Bring your A game. We play from where the wind allows, windy, green tees, 71.9 137 slope 6,459 yards, really windy white tees, 70.5 134 6,162. First tee off 7 am, no wind, blue tees 74.2 144 6,909 yards. Black pro tees, never, 76.7 151 slope 7,201 yards. In reality, having played it about 10 times, just add about 5-7 strokes onto your "regular" score and that's what you'll end up with. If you are really playing well, you could = your known score. That would be a great round, thou. Or if you are good consistently off non flat lies, a big advantage. Lies are not billy goat in fairway, just not very flat like most are used too.

Irish course is on more inland side of property, not the same layout as Straits at all, and a little easier to play. Can take cart or caddy, caddy only way to go IMO.

Both Pete Dye designs so if you are familiar with his style courses, these have the same hallmarks.

Got lucky on Monday at Irish and got eagle on par 5 8th hole, 542 yards. Good drive, unbelievable second shot with brand new hybrid club I had 3 days. 17 degree Nickent model, low borer. Crushed it, ball rolls, hops, skips around three bunkers to about 12 feet and I actually make the putt. Made my day and for wolf players, I was wolf alone because all others played their shots into trouble off tee, had to be alone. Was worth many many points. First hybrid and I am believer.
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaar View Post
I've also had the pleasure of playing Breck last year, and it was incredible. I wish I could play it more often.
Glad you had the opportunity to play my track. Which rotation did you play?
post #11 of 16
I want to say Elk/Beaver, but I cannot say with certainty at all. We started off at the tee box right next to the driving range then the back nine started on the other side of the club house.
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaar View Post
I want to say Elk/Beaver, but I cannot say with certainty at all. We started off at the tee box right next to the driving range then the back nine started on the other side of the club house.
The Elk starts off paralleling the right side of the range as you indeed indicate. The normal rotation would then take you to the Beaver course which finishes with two beautiful holes crossing beaver ponds. Eight Beaver is a par five where your approach must go over the ponds (unless you putt across the bridge) and nine is a downhill par three where anything left finds the ponds. The Bear nine takes you down toward highway 9.
post #13 of 16
I've been playing a lot and carrying a handicap at Black Mesa Golf Club, in Espanola, New Mexico. Black Mesa is one of those "Top 100 You Can Play" type places, but very low key and the people are pleasant--it may be desert golf, but you're a long way off Scottsdale Road, and it's unpaved gravel out here. We're having a good water year in Northern New Mexico, so the track is in great shape.

From the whites, slope and rating are 68.6/130. From the blues, slope and rating are 70.5/136. I should be playing off the whites, but most of the guys I play with want to play from the blues. It's 73.9/141 from the tips, and even the most testosterone poisoned bogey golfer has more sense than that.

Incidentally, if anyone is interested, here is how the handicap system works (in a nutshell, and Mikewil, jump in and correct me if I bungle it). The first number (from the blues at Black Mesa, 70.5) is what a scratch (zero handicap) golfer would shoot. The second number (from the Black Mesa blues 136) is a number that basically compares the difficulty of golf courses to each other, with 113 being the average slope). So, if you play a round at Black Mesa from the blue tees and your score is 90 (bogey golf), you can compute that round for purposes of your handicap index as 90 minus 70.5, or 19.5, multiplied by (113 divided by 136, or .83). The result is 16.2.

There are a couple of caveats. First, there is something called equitable stroke control, which basically says, depending on your existing handicap, you can't record a score higher a number set by the system (if you blow up and take a 12 on a hole, that may be your score in competition, but for handicap purposes you are limited--in the case of a bogey golfer--to a 7). Second, in computing your handicap index, the worse half of your scores are not included in the calculation. So, if you have four scores--83, 88, 90 and 92--only the scores in the 80s would be included in computing the handicap. One thing to keep in mind, people brag about their handicaps off the course, but the real purpose of the handicap is to get some kind of parity for competing (and gambling). Different folks have different opinions about gambling, but at least it tends to encourage basically honest people to more or less follow the rules of golf. And the term for a guy who overstates his handicap to win stakes is a 'sandbagger'.

My personal hero in this thread is the 36-handicapper who shot a net 52 in a club event. I was once on a team in a corporate scramble that got two strokes on a par three, and birdied the hole, for a net zero, which was one funky hole. But a net 52, that must have been a whole afternoon of funkiness
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sno'more View Post
.

Incidentally, if anyone is interested, here is how the handicap system works (in a nutshell, and Mikewil, jump in and correct me if I bungle it). The first number (from the blues at Black Mesa, 70.5) is what a scratch (zero handicap) golfer would shoot. The second number (from the Black Mesa blues 136) is a number that basically compares the difficulty of golf courses to each other, with 113 being the average slope). So, if you play a round at Black Mesa from the blue tees and your score is 90 (bogey golf), you can compute that round for purposes of your handicap index as 90 minus 70.5, or 19.5, multiplied by (113 divided by 136, or .83). The result is 16.2.
Pretty close, here is how the USGA does it.

First you have to know the definition of a "handicap differential"

Handicap Differential

A “Handicap Differential” is the difference between a player's adjusted gross score and the USGA Course Rating of the course on which the score was made, multiplied by 113, then divided by the Slope Rating from the tees played and rounded to the nearest tenth. A Handicap Differential is a number rounded to one decimal place, e.g. 12.8.


Adjusted gross score refers the the Equitable Stroke Control deductions you mentioned-it is designed to take exceptionally bad holes out of the equation (also known as BAGGER CONTROL):

It takes a minimum of 5 rounds (with the lowest 4 differentials being counted). Here is a USGA calculation based on 20 scores with the lowest 10 being used:

Total of 10 lowest Handicap Differentials: 154.8
Average (154.8 / 10): 15.48
Average multiplied by.96: 14.861
Delete all digits after tenths: 14.8
Handicap Index: 14.8


Why .96?

* Bonus for Excellence is the incentive for players to improve their golf games that is built into the USGA Handicap System. It is the term used to describe the small percentage below perfect equity that is used to calculate a Handicap Index (96 percent). As a Handicap Index improves (gets lower), the player has a slightly better chance of placing high or winning a handicap event.

Hopes that helps. One of the nice things about the USGA Handicap System is the peer review feature. You can look at other players score postings which lends to a bit of peer pressure to be honest. There are also some adjustment features for formal tournament scores and a few other happenings

PS: (Added in edit) You can go to the USGA's web site USGA.org and look at the handicapping system as well as the rules section, even challenging your rules knowledge with some on line quizzes
post #15 of 16
Several favorites : TPC Sawgrass, Kiawah Ocean Course, Pebble Beach, Doral blue monster, Yeamans Hall Club, Sage Valley near Augusta, Harbour Town at Hilton Head, Sea Island (Seaside) in Ga,

Pebble Beach is #1 until I play Pine Valley, Augusta or Cypress Pt -- views, conditions, difficulty, fairness. played one June a few weeks prior to US AM, rough covered shoe tops, everything was immaculate, went off at 6 AM w/ caddy, it was cold, loved every minute and played decent



Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewil View Post
Adjusted gross score refers the the Equitable Stroke Control deductions you mentioned-it is designed to take exceptionally bad holes out of the equation (also known as BAGGER CONTROL):
mikewil,
how do you handle reverse bagger control? I play in a group blitz,
A-D players, D players are 3-4 hdcp, 5 and 2, automatic 2 down presses. One player was a former pga tour player who regained amateur status. he always plays to a "0". Was my partner on several occasions, shot 65, 67, 69 -- we had lots of birdies and the $2 bet paid well. Only scores I ever saw posted were an occasional 71 or 72.. we think he is probably a +5 or 6. I guess in our regular group it's all off the stick and everyone knows each others abilities but I quit playing in club handicap tournaments when he was entered --- you get tired of giving up 6 shots every round : would you suggest the club pro address this??
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapid View Post
mikewil,
how do you handle reverse bagger control? I play in a group blitz,
A-D players, D players are 3-4 hdcp, 5 and 2, automatic 2 down presses. One player was a former pga tour player who regained amateur status. he always plays to a "0". Was my partner on several occasions, shot 65, 67, 69 -- we had lots of birdies and the $2 bet paid well. Only scores I ever saw posted were an occasional 71 or 72.. we think he is probably a +5 or 6. I guess in our regular group it's all off the stick and everyone knows each others abilities but I quit playing in club handicap tournaments when he was entered --- you get tired of giving up 6 shots every round : would you suggest the club pro address this??
I would definitely have a discussion first with whoever is the chairman of the handicap committee then if necessary with the head pro (they may be one and the same).
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