or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Where does TURN begin and end?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

# Where does TURN begin and end? - Page 3

Hmmm, I think you can. Looking at the turns as a set will change your tactical decisions, but turns will still have a finish, a transition and a start.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BigE Hmmm, I think you can. Looking at the turns as a set will change your tactical decisions, but turns will still have a finish, a transition and a start.
i learn that on finishing a slow turn one uses a manuver similar to 'open bottle cap' to guide the skis over the new side. so which point in time is the start of the turn? start applying the force, @skis flatten or upon edging?
The start of the turn is when the skis start to deflect you in the direction of the turn. Flat skis do not deflect the body.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by BigE The start of the turn is when the skis start to deflect you in the direction of the turn. Flat skis do not deflect the body.
before that happen, does the steering that carries your skis over, this motion is not linear, counts as turn?
It does not matter what your legs or skis are doing if they are not deflecting the body. The turn ends when the body (Center of Mass) is released from it's arc.
E,
Momentum play a role in all of this as well. It can extend the "across the hill" phase even though we release the edges.
Gravity is another force that can be a turning force during the first half of the turn. Which makes edging an option, not a necessary component for a turn to start or finish.
Good catch JASP! Momentum is huge!

In simplifying, I may have gone too far.

I originally wanted to state the definition as "The turn starts when the CM starts being deflected from it's inertial path. The turn ends when the CM is no longer being deflected from it's inertial path".

Turn end could be restated more positively as "The turn ends when the CM is allowed to follow it's inertial path." ("the inertial path" was removed for simplification. The inertial path is what happens when just falling downhill, not turning.)

OTOH, The beauty of including gravity is that the skier is always in one turn or another. What effect this has on the phases of the CSIA turn [1: completion to neutral, 2: neutral to fall-line 3: fall-line to completion] is that a new turn can be said to start immediately upon completion of the previous turn, regardless of the state of the edges, since gravity IS always having an effect. FYI: Completion is defined as releasing the CM from it's arc.

Interesting thought. Right now, I still prefer not to include gravity. I'll think about it - it actually may help people with their patience. The "patience turn" can make more sense. pros and cons to both sides I guess!

Thanks justanotherskipro.
Your welcome! We define things a little differently but it ends up at the same place most of the time. For me the reason I include both is because they are two of the forces we are trying to manage and manipulate.
An additional thought that goes well with the original question.
Assuming a relatively constant fall line (no double fall line), the first half is when we are turning into the fall line and gravity is helping us do so. The second half of the turn is when we start turning away from the fall line and we are resisting gravity.
The end of my turn is the begining of my next turn and so on the end is the begining and the begining is the end as per CCR smells like country tastes like rock and roll
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Return Home
Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Where does TURN begin and end?