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post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Well, I finally did it today : . Tore my ACL on Rosies run at Copper under the Super Bee Chair, Tower 11, doing high speed carvers. Was practicing getting as much edge as I could, trying to boot out. I was getting more angles than I ever have and feeling good about it. Dragged my knuckles a couple of times, THEN, : got back and took a slooow rolling fall to the right with lots of pressure on the left ski tail [img]redface.gif[/img] .

Heard it pop just before I bit it. Should of just laid on my right side before the tail pressure built up, but it just happened too fast : . Sideslipped [img]redface.gif[/img] down Over Lode and made a few tentative turns to East Village and got a ride to Copper Clinic from my 'SO' Kay.

Initial diagnosis after x-rays at the Copper Clinic is torn ACL, possible torn Miniscus and MCL. Going to see my orthopod in Denver on Tuesday for MRI and more detailed diagnosis, but think I'll be out for the rest of the year. So much for Level 3 this year .

Researched all the old threads on ACL and will do lots of rehab and don't plan to wear a brace. Time to get the Vermont Ski Safety video.

Going for Level 3 next year though. :

Anyway some champagne to mourn and then to bed.


post #2 of 30
I skied that same run(s)on Tuesday. Can't imagine how scary that fall must have been. That sucker is one steep groomer. Hope you get better soon! Take care of yourself.
post #3 of 30
That blows.

I blew out my right knee 100% last Feb and had surgery late May.

I would be skepticle of a doctor who can tell all that from moving your leg and an x-ray.

An MRI is really the only way to tell what damage you did and even then it is difficult to see meniscus damage unless it is a significant tear.

There is some elasticity after a kneww injury that can make it seem like it is worse or that you may have damaged more than one ligament.

Chances are if you heard a pop your ACL is ripped. If it was a loud pop it was probably almost a 100% rip.

If you have any questions I would be happy to help as I have had two ACL surgeries in the same knee.

One tibial avulsion playing tackle football and one rip skiing at Cannon.

I'm praying for you that it is only tweaked.
post #4 of 30
That's dreadful!

Knee injuries really suck! I've injured a knee before! Take it easy and do what you are recommended, you can come back from them. I did. I avoid bumps like the plague though, I don't want to mess it up so I can't ski again. I never was a very good bump skier and have always been uncomfortable in them, so I figured why risk it there.

BTW: I did not injure my knee skiing.
post #5 of 30
The Steadman Hawkins Clinic on Bellview east of I 25 will take good care of you if you let them.
post #6 of 30
Ouch...hate to hear about knee injuries, I tore my Acl several years ago, doing a martial arts kick (ha). I had no insurance and they wanted to do surgery but I couldn't afford that at the time so I went home with a full leg Brace (from thigh to ankle) I wore that for about 4 months and then got some crutches which I had to use for about six months, I couldn't walk alone, I finally got to where I could walk but had a horrible limp for probably close to another year, I kept working it, bending it, doing little squats and now its about 99.9% well, but I'm still careful with it though.............I'm just so leary of surgeries... Wishing you well and a speedy recovery.....
post #7 of 30
Bong (Bruce)

That is an absolute bummer. Good Luck with your rehab. I think your "Class" is jinxed. First Cosmo, now you. Glad none of you are in my training group.

You should have been at the "Boat" instead with what seemed like the rest of the Copper crew. Thursday the upper mountain was fogged in like San Francisco in summer and Friday we were graced with a nice frozen rain crust on top of a bit of fresh powder. Interesting, very interesting. It crackled like Rice Crispies as you went over it and ate skiers for breakfast.

One of our examiners who was working the event (no names but the initials are D.C.)managed to leave his gloves on the gondola. [img]redface.gif[/img]
post #8 of 30

Sorry to hear the news. I had major knee surgery last year and can only say I feel better now than ever.
post #9 of 30
that's real sad/bad.

Take care and get well soon.

post #10 of 30
Dude, that sucks. Good news is that you don't need your ACL but you should get it repaired if you want to remain atlethic for a long time IMO.

When you choose your doctor make sure that you tell him/her that you want to be able to ski by next season. Some dr's are very progressive and some aren't. After Scalce's surgery this year, his surgeon had a 6 month recovery plan to get him in shape for skiing. However, his dr left to go to Chicago and he had to see a different dr that said that skiing was out of the question - moron! So of course he never went back and tried to remember everything his surgeon said!

One thing that really helped Scalce was that he waited for 3 months before he had surgery. Thus, he leg muscles regained their strength after the injury and compensated for his torn ACL. So life after surgery was pretty smooth because his leg was so strong (he used his crutches to leave the hospital and that was it). The doctor said it makes the world of difference in regards to the recovery period.

Good luck - we will all hope for a speedy recovery for you [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img]
post #11 of 30
Thread Starter 
Actually the fall wasn't that scary until I heard the pop : , I thought I was just going to roll over on my side. I should have just given in to the fall when I realized I was out of balance, but it happened pretty quickly. Just made a mistake, stuff happens : .

Thanks for your concern , the ER doc made an initial diagnosis and referred me to an orthopedic surgeon after the x-rays and doing stability tests on both knees. I could tell that the left knee was much looser than my right Having torn both my MCL's, once after a motorcycle crash and once after a skiing "Cascade Concrete" at night on the east wall of upper Ski Bowl in Oregon, it was apparent to me that something was torn, especially after I felt and heard the pop and the initial pain.

I will be getting an MRI from my trusted surgeon on Tuesday, but suspect that there is enough damage to confirm the ER diagnosis. Just have to determine what repair is needed. I'll be in touch with you and LM for rehab suggestions. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Mr. Vert,
Unfortunately,they're not on my med plan (Too bad Aetna doesn't provide full coverage to the most recognized in sports medicine), but I have a good surgeon that I trust. Thanks for the suggestions.

Don't think of our group as jinxed. I attribute it to "youthful" exuberance and our zealous pursuit of aggressive improvement at one of our chosen sports.

Actually glad that I missed the fog and Rice Crispies snow, would have been fun to kid our examiner about losing his gloves though. Was he distracted by the scenery? :

For the rest of you,
Thanks for the condolences : , I am a bummed since I won't be able to go for Level 3 this year. Still like the bumps though and was really getting comfortable with hop turns in the pipe since that's where we were before we went speed skiing on the groomers and I blew it.

Gonna get repaired ASAP and do lots of rehab and strength/balance training. Gotta be recovered so I can get at least 2500 miles on the road bike this summer so I'll be in shape for next winter. I only got 53 days on snow this year, but there's always next season.

Thanks all for your concern,
post #12 of 30
OUCH!! I feel you pain, blew out my knew over 15yrs ago..
Good luck and take care.
post #13 of 30
Oh man, knees..knees...knees!!! If the good Lord would have given sports a second thought, he'd have come up with a better design. Tough break Bong, hang in there. I can relate only to well with knee issues. I've had my left knee reconstructed twice while playing football in college, and I've had it 'scoped 3 times in the last 5 years to clean it up a bit. The 4th time is getting real close. Knock-on-wood, no skiing issues yet, but it's in the back of my mind every time out. Take care.

PS. Get serious about the rehab after the surgery AND get even more serious about building and maintaining the muscles around the knee after you think you're recovered. My experience is that once you have problems with a knee, the possibility of future injury is always there if you don't work to prevent it. Good luck!!
post #14 of 30
Bummer! Bummer! Bummer! Hope your recovery is brief. In December I "tweaked" my knee, or so I thought. Went to my primary care physician who X-rayed and tried to move it around. I had very little pain walking, but certain movements. He said no real damage, ice, heat, and rest and I should be good to go. About 3 weeks later it felt good, strapped on skis, made one turn on my good knee, and the bad one just wouldn't hold. Next X-ray I was told it was a small fracture. Went to orthopedic, MRI indicated just a very small fracture, no other damage. My knee feels great but I've been told not to try skiing till late February. Incidently, I brought the original X-rays to the orthopedic who saw the fracture.
post #15 of 30
So you guys are gonna say I'm nuts, but hey what the hell. So I blew out my knee two years ago, in November. However, I'm a fanatic and the doctor said I could ski with a brace. So thats just what I did. With torn cartilage, MCL and ACL I skied. You're gonna say how the hell did he do that. Actually it worked fine and then I had surgery in late Feb. so I could ski the next year. My knee came back 100%, just look at all the options before you say you can't ski.
post #16 of 30
It's totally an option to ski in some cases but it may not be worth the risk of damaging more of your meniscus which cannot be repaired or replaced.

I refuse to wear a brace after surgery for anything including skiing. It weakens certain stability muscles and will not stop you from reinjuring your knee. I think one of it's only good uses is to keep your knee warm.

There is no substitute for rehab, exercise, and a strong leg.
post #17 of 30
Originally posted by Mr. Vertical:
The Steadman Hawkins Clinic on Bellview east of I 25 will take good care of you if you let them.
That's good advice! If Steadman himself will see you, your in excellent hands! I've blown both knees out so I know how you feel. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #18 of 30
I'm with Scalce on the probability of new or further meniscal damage if you ski w/o ACL. I think it's foolish, but then fools don't often listen to reason!


As to Steadman, well, I think he's highly overrated and not exactly cutting-edge. Besides, aren't his fees about 3x what other GOOD orthopods charge?
post #19 of 30
I partially tore my ACL in college while playing basketball. At some point the whole thing ripped. Because of all the leg strengthening and biking I did, I had no idea my ACL was gone. However, the bad part of not having an ACL is that it is much easier to tear your meniscus because your knee can go in directions that it normally could not with an ACL. Meniscus injuries are bad because if they can't repair it, then it has to be snipped out and then you are much more likely to develop arthritis.

I tore both menisci in May of 2001. I had an ACL reconstruction in December of 2001 and was skiing at the beginning of the 2002 season with no problem. All of the research suggests that it takes 9 months for a graft to completely attach. The number one reason ACL reconstructions fail is that people do too much too soon. I don't know how old you are but I assume you have quite a few years of skiing left. Get the surgery done and you have a better chance of having a healthy knee for a long time. Stuart Kennedy at Western Orthopedics in Denver (303.321.1333) did my surgery and he is great. He is a skier and biker and understands completely about getting back to doing things. He is a fantastic doctor whom I trust completely. I would not go anywhere else. I am back skiing, running, biking and other than a rather nice scar on my knee, I have no indication that anything was done to me knee.

My suggestions: Do the rehab. There are no shortcuts. Don't do too much too soon. Somethings just take time to heal. If you are not going to have the surgery, wear a brace otherwise you are asking for more damage that may not be so easily repaired.

Good Luck.
post #20 of 30
The most annoying part of knee surgery is the internal inflamation that does not allow you to fully stretch your quad.

I would recommend going to a good athletic massage therapist who can work out scar tissue and stretch you properly.

It has been 8 months since my reconstruction and I am about 2-3 inches from my butt when doing a standing quad stretch. It just won't physically go any further.

I would also do alot of hamstring, IT band, and hip flexor stretches as these tense up after surgery.

Also it's funky to have the nerves all messed up on your knee if they cut you open.
If I touch to the right of my scar I feel it at the bottom of me knee.

Very funky
post #21 of 30
Bong, Bong, Bong, whatta thinking, just trying to out do Miss Kelly? You really should make her supply the Champagne. Seriously that sucks! Call when your down this way and we will open something to help ease the pain.
post #22 of 30

Ultrasound / radiant heat massage busts up that scar tissue just fine. I had the same issues in 2000 when I had my left ACL rebuilt... couldn't get good flexion OR extension, about 20 degrees shy each way until the ultrasound. Magic.
post #23 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the advice, I'm only 60 so I have a lot of skiing and biking years left. The Steadman clinic is not an option with my medical plan. Robert Rokicki is the orthopedic surgeon I will see tomorrow, he repaired my rotator cuff several years ago and knows my activity level. Skier31, thanks for the suggestion of Stuart Kennedy, he is on my plan and I may use him for a second opinion.

I will to do whatever is necessary for a full recovery. I know the value for us mature folks of waiting to have our bodies completely heal. Since we have a very complete gym in our basement doing rehab will not be a problem.

It's a deal, be coming down tomorrow for a couple of days. If we don't hookup, I'll see you this weekend. Btw, I was scheduled for the Mahr Clinic last weekend but had to cancel . Didn't want to be at the bottom of the list in our Sunday PM instructor races and I gotta keep ahead of that youngster, Kelly.

I'll keep you posted on the diagnosis after I see Rokicki.

post #24 of 30
Start scouring ebay for a wobble board and a bongo board.

These two rehab toys really get your muscles firing after the doctors clear you to start pushing yourself a few months after surgery.

Doing squats on a bongo board is a nice little workout.
post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
Hello all,
My orthopedic surgeon confirmed the ER diagnosis of a complete ACL tear. At my age and activity level I feel that repair is my best option so I'll have it done ASAP after the swelling goes down.

I know that I can probably get by without the repair, but not at the level I want to continue skiing and biking.

Thanks to all you bears for your input and concern. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

post #26 of 30
Patella, cadaver, or hamstring replacement?
post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Based on input and research I've done so far I plan to have a patella graft done. That seems to be the strongest, most secure repair with the least down time.

Did you get my pm?
post #28 of 30
Mrs. Whistlerskier here. Sorry to hear the bad news. I've had both my ACls repaired using patella grafts. Lots of pros and cons with each method. Go with what you and your doc are both most comfortable with. Here's a website where you'll make all kinds of new friends to commiserate with.

post #29 of 30

Like I said before sorry to hear that, but the chance for recovery is much better then when I had reconscrution.

Good luck, and listen to the experts.
post #30 of 30
Just found this, and good luck with the surgery! I hope you're in the pink again soon.

PS. You got 53 days on snow? Wow! I'm jealous...that's about what I've gotten in 12 years!
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