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Q for Moderation

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Re: Counter Rotation vs Upper Lower Body Seperation thread in Instruction: this thread was locked as it was seen as pointless bickering.

IMHO it hadn't descended to insults, name calling, etc., but it was two totally opposing theories as to how you get into counter, which certainly warrants thrashing out further.

Was this prematurely locked?
post #2 of 14
I had the same question. This version is posed much more politely...
post #3 of 14
Because Max501 posted too much in it?
post #4 of 14
That's the best I can come up with.

I thought it was pretty silly that thread was locked.
post #5 of 14
A more detailed explanation is coming soon, but the arguments had decended in to "Dolter" vs "Skidud", and the closure was made until things could get cleaned up and a discussion completed with the offenders.
post #6 of 14
Both of the main proponents of the "two totally opposing theories" had resorted to clever little derogatory plays on the other person's screen name.

We feel the actions crossed the line into insulting.

Also, I'll add two reminders:

1. Questions, concerns, complaints and so forth with regard to moderation policies are supposed to be addressed to the moderators via pm.

2. There is absolutely nothing to prevent either of the two (or anyone else) from opening up a new thread that discusses the IDEAS involved here while eliminating the personal sniping.
post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Questions, concerns, complaints and so forth with regard to moderation policies are supposed to be addressed to the moderators via pm
Sorry, ignorance on my part. I'll consider myself reprimanded.
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by veeeight View Post
Sorry, ignorance on my part. I'll consider myself reprimanded.
Consider your virtual knuckles rapped by the virtual ruler, okay?

Seriously, though, we ask that moderation concerns be addressed to the moderators first via pm because there may be privacy or personality issues involved. That was not the case here, but it can be and often is the case in other instances of moderation.

I know that some (many?) in the Epic community feel that we moderators are too heavy-handed. This may seem like one of those situations. Nevertheless, we believe the community is best served if members discuss ideas, information, and disagreements in a respectful manner and avoid the temptation toward personal insults and attacks.

Thanks for understanding.

(If, indeed, you do. )
post #9 of 14
Then why not leave the offending posts up & reference them when the thread is locked? That way there is no mystery.
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
Then why not leave the offending posts up & reference them when the thread is locked? That way there is no mystery.
We have endeavored to remove posts that violate the Terms or the Posting Guidelines. This has been pretty consistent. I know that some folks would prefer that we leave them up, but we tend to inform those involved, and then take action with the posts.

We have discussed other alternatives, but none have really seemed to address the various issues very well. And, in the case of raw insults, we do not want to leave those out in the open. They are just not appropriate for here.
post #11 of 14
It was a good discussion . Even when it degraded into personal issues there was some good points being made by both Bolter and Racer. They should have been given warnings and posts deleted or held out for discussion by moderators with them in a private manner. i don't know if this was done. I asked a moderator but he wasn't interested in responding.It makes It is hard to understand and follow the new guidelines when the moderators won't discuss it with you. Impossible is the word I am reaching for.

Good discussion is one thing and opposing viewpoints makes for good discussion but the wordage was getting into a personal attack or a perceived one ,anyway.
We need to learn how to argue in a polite manner which the weight of our arguments bear our ability to sway opinion in support of these points.
I agree some of this thread has escalated to some personal grumpery.
In my opinion Bolter did do well by staying to the point and countering the argument and staying calm. But it wouldn't be anything to talk about if only one had participated in the degradation of this thread
I think the moderators should discuss these problems with the persons involved and if they can't behave then their posts get deleted or the thread gets locked.

I would like to see the thread opened and enjoyed the discussion very much .
I would also like the moderators to feel free to discuss their motivations about this kind of action when asked in a polite manner.
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
I think the moderators should discuss these problems with the persons involved and if they can't behave then their posts get deleted or the thread gets locked.
This is our policy.
post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
This is our policy.
So often all we see is the locking or deleting of threads or parts of them . We don't see the exchanges that go on behind the scenes as they should be. I don't envy the times wasted policing people that are fully aware of the situation but continue anyway.
I want to thank the moderator for sharing his thoughts with me when he had time to respond and I fully support the necessary actions to keep discussions on track and civil


Another thought. Is it possible to lock threads to certain posters as a time out . I'm thinking time outs have to be of the forum overall but if they could be administered thread time outs would be a good way to keep them open and have the folks that feel the need to continue down counter productive paths find themselves locked out of them.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
Another thought. Is it possible to lock threads to certain posters as a time out . I'm thinking time outs have to be of the forum overall but if they could be administered thread time outs would be a good way to keep them open and have the folks that feel the need to continue down counter productive paths find themselves locked out of them.
Its an interesting concept, but we don't have that ability. Time-out is actually a temporary form of banning. It prevents the user from posting in any thread, although they can read the forums. We don't go there very often.

Garry, I think the perception that moderators are more visible than "in the day" is true. This stems from a tightening down of what has been deemed acceptable behavior combined with a reduction in basic civility. This is most acutely felt in the instruction forum. BillA recently explained it like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA
Back in the day, when life on Epic was much simpler, there used to be more appreciation when top level pros gave their time and knowledge to post there. Certainly, there was a higher level of give and take between those in the know and those that wanted to know. There were some heated exchanges but mostly the discussions were civil. The” knows” patiently answered and explained the questions posed by the “want to knows”, even the more obnoxious were treated with care (more or less). It was pretty cool and I and I think most of the others that followed the exchanges learned something.

Gradually things started to evolve, or more appropriately devolve and the learning environment created by the “knows” and shared with the “want to knows” has been displaced.
I think that insight is valuable to understanding what some members feel has been lost in the instruction and technique forum. On the other side of that argument is a group who feels the forums should be a free place for intensely technical debates on the minutia of technique. These debates give most sane people headaches (speaking for myself) and tend to bury the content the first group feels is most valuable. Nevertheless, these members feel they should have a place to pursue their pleasure. As much as anything else, the moderation being discussed in this thread arises out of that conflict. Its not exciting stuff, but the challenge is to give both of these interests a proper home.

I think what you will eventually see is an attempt to let those two factions co-exist by separating their conversations into different areas. Garry, you have been involved in these planning things before and know how it goes. This is still in the early stages, but I think it eventually opens the door to a more comprehensible "posting policy II" for the instruction forums. Anyway, that's how I see it. As always, your views count. I really encourage you to continue participating in Weem's thread
Future Tech/Teach Forum because that is where the ideas are being hatched.
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