I am happy you will stand for it, because here it comes.
Teaching theory? Real world practice and application show much of what I propose, happening just about everywhere.
There are huge differences in the movements of counter action (CA) and counter-rotation (CR), they are not the same thing, their results are close to polar opposites. CA negates torque from being applied to the skis and blocks rotation of the upper body (UB) into the turn, and other benefits I have listed elsewhere. CR applies torque to the skis, by design. These are core differences in effect and purpose. Also, as I pointed out earlier, the action and role of the hips are not the same in the two mechanisms. There are many more dissimilarities.
Hip angulation is not clear to me and neither is counter, so I do not (will no longer) use these terms. Regardless of its meaning or uses, hip angulation is not the means I use to tip the skis and start the turn. Please search the kinetic chain- implied foot/ankle/knee/hip sequence, foot truss, co-contraction and gait/stride mechanics (see Rick B posts ). SO, (in my world) the tipping movements start at the FEET/ANKLES and not at the HIP through angulation (whatever that may be). CA coupled with counter balancing/tipping movements of the UB produce the torso-to-leg angle, which I think you call hip angulation.
Harold Harb, Horst Abraham and several Barking Bears (supporters area) write about these (above) matters to search.
Thank you for your input and everything. JR
For me "CA", my counter, and forward flexing of the hip joint when we are countered in the turn are really movements we make to control pressure over the skis and to effect balancing to the forces. Edge angles primarily come from the inclination of the body inside the turn (CoM moving inside the turn). Hopefully we also have upper and lower body separation at the hip and spine to allow the above CA, Counter, and "Hip Angulation".
I think Martin"s assessment was accurate.
So a question for you Bolter. If the feet tipping leads the kinetic chain movement of our hips into the turn, what leads "CA" or countering movements? Does the torque from tipping come first or does the Ca or countering come first? Lets forget about torque from the previous turn for the moment. How do you see this happening with respect to the kinetic chain recruitment.