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Rotation and carving - Page 4

post #91 of 111
Notice the RED ski jacket. That's the ticket!
post #92 of 111
Max, I think we actually getting somewhere, I do not mean you should constantly change your technique, but you need the skills (including one-footed skiing) to make adjustments when needed. This shouldn't mean all the time or even frequently. What it means is that you should have the ability to make adjustments when needed and there are several skills that a good skier should know. All to often you come across that you don't ever need to make any adjustment, this is where my beef comes from. You may not agree with certain approaches but that's really irrelevant. No one can ski in all speeds, conditions and terrain without making adjustments to maintain control or to make corrective movements to get back into postion. I am sure you will agree. (maybe not )
post #93 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I consider that adjustment just part of being balanced.

It sounds like there is a fundamental difference of what "technique" means. Finndog seems to say that an isolated movement pattern is one "technique". In that view skiing has many techniques for poling, edging, pressure control, balance, coordination, timing, rotation, adustments etc.

That also means we're not at all on the same page, and arguing past each other.

Sort of trollish if you ask me.
in this instance,Being balanced is a result of the adjustment made to regain the balance.

If you think that polling is not a technique or edging is not a technique then we don't agree. for examle, I use my poles differently depending on the circumstance and I use my edges differently as well. I do consider these different skill sets and will mix the variations depending on need. All skiing is using different skills together, no matter if its P* or PSIA. that's why you do skill specific drills.
post #94 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
Max, I think we actually getting somewhere, I do not mean you should constantly change your technique, but you need the skills (including one-footed skiing) to make adjustments when needed.
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
All to often you come across that you don't ever need to make any adjustment, this is where my beef comes from.
I never said I didn't make adjustments to stay in balance. That would be a stupid thing to say. However, I don't make adjustments to technique. There is a huge difference between those two. My beef was that you had said that a skier needs to make adjustments to technique. Sounds like we use the word differently.

In the trees do you tend to tip more or twist more as your turning mechanism?
post #95 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
In the trees do you tend to tip more or twist more as your turning mechanism?
Yes.

post #96 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
in this instance,Being balanced is a result of the adjustment made to regain the balance.

If you think that polling is not a technique or edging is not a technique then we don't agree. for examle, I use my poles differently depending on the circumstance and I use my edges differently as well. I do consider these different skill sets and will mix the variations depending on need. All skiing is using different skills together, no matter if its P* or PSIA. that's why you do skill specific drills.
Well now it is clear how we differ.

When adjustments are made, and you said the same thing, it is the movements that change. Within the umbrella of a particular technique, there are a large series of admissible movements.

For example, within CSIA, pretty much anything goes, so long as it is not disruptive to your balance.

In the case of poling, there are many ways to handle a pole, but only a few are admissible movement patterns under the umbrella of CSIA technique. Some variations or adjustments to those basic patterns are admissable. If the adjustments/variations are very different, (perhaps in recovery), then technique has been abandoned and athleticism is said to take over.

In the case of edging, if you fall to the inside ski becuase your weight transfer was incomplete or you are insufficiently angulated and banking your technique is clearly flawed. You will quite possibly be unable to save the turn and land wrong way up, as sufficient freedom for adjustment is not present.

If you fall to the inside ski because the snow gave way or an icy patch caused the outside ski to lose grip, and you are sufficiently angulated and well balanced to make the adjustment, you'll recover and no marks are lost. It is the application of solid technique that allowed you to make the adjustment.

The adjustment did not highlight a different skill or element from your bag of tricks.
post #97 of 111
Trees or pow , (i am not good enough to ski trees in frozen crud) I don't need to tip much. The result would send my skis plummeting down. Its much more finesse and feel. I don't really think about it to be honest. I definitely don't "twist" I will counter balance a bit more agressively and stay a bit more light. Still working on it. I am not a twister. For some that works but not for me.
post #98 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Well now it is clear how we differ.

When adjustments are made, and you said the same thing, it is the movements that change. Within the umbrella of a particular technique, there are a large series of admissible movements.

For example, within CSIA, pretty much anything goes, so long as it is not disruptive to your balance.

In the case of poling, there are many ways to handle a pole, but only a few are admissible movement patterns under the umbrella of CSIA technique. Some variations or adjustments to those basic patterns are admissable. If the adjustments/variations are very different, (perhaps in recovery), then technique has been abandoned and athleticism is said to take over.

In the case of edging, if you fall to the inside ski becuase your weight transfer was incomplete or you are insufficiently angulated and banking your technique is clearly flawed. You will quite possibly be unable to save the turn and land wrong way up, as sufficient room for adjustment is not present.

If you fall to the inside ski because the snow gave way or an icy patch caused the outside ski to lose grip, and you are sufficiently angulated and well balanced to make the adjustment, you'll recover and no marks are lost. It is the application of solid technique that allowed you to make the adjustment.

The adjustment did not highlight a new skill or element from your bag of tricks.
I have no idea how any of what you posted applies to my posting....Where did you come up with these example? They have nothing to do with skill sets. Understand how and when to vary edging is a skill set...Please don't try, you have completely missed my point, which Max got....
post #99 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Yes.

Perfect!
post #100 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
If you think that polling is not a technique or edging is not a technique then we don't agree. for examle, I use my poles differently depending on the circumstance and I use my edges differently as well.
In a nutshell:

Poling is not a technique. Edging is not a technique.

Movement patterns that involve poling/edging that are acceptable to the CSIA (for eg.) is what composes CSIA technique.

Adjustments to the movements are made possible by adherence to the technique. The technique itself does not change.
post #101 of 111
no point in discussing this any further.
post #102 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
In a nutshell:

Poling is not a technique. Edging is not a technique.

Movement patterns that involve poling/edging that are acceptable to the CSIA (for eg.) is what composes CSIA technique.

Adjustments to the movements are made possible by adherence to the technique. The technique itself does not change.
[ IMG ][ /IMG ]

We are now in the Tower of Babble.
post #103 of 111
Guess so. Outta here.
post #104 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Adjustments to the movements are made possible by adherence to the technique. The technique itself does not change.
post #105 of 111
I've always woundered if one persons bag of tricks, is anothers persons wide range of skills, is another persons technique adjustments, is another persons essential movements plus D.I.R.T., is another persons...

At least for the most part. Clouded by our own biases, of course.
post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
He shows it to make a point that you need to learn to ski on either ski at any time.
You mean something like this?

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/a...eOneFoot .flv
post #107 of 111
Pretty nifty UL. I'd like you some time to post a vid of you doing the "Charleston" . The show stopping move from the very earliest days of Freestyle. Never was coordinated enough to do it , admired those that could.
post #108 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post
Pretty nifty UL. I'd like you some time to post a vid of you doing the "Charleston" . The show stopping move from the very earliest days of Freestyle. Never was coordinated enough to do it , admired those that could.
OK, I'll put it on video for you this season, or turn up at LGC IV
post #109 of 111
UL, that one ski thing looks good. If you made a few small changes, it could possibly result in a new level of understanding of *the way of skiing that shall not be named*.
post #110 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesB View Post
UL, that one ski thing looks good. If you made a few small changes, it could possibly result in a new level of understanding of *the way of skiing that shall not be named*.
He'd have to eliminate the tail push first. A difference between what UL is demoing and what we would do is pushing the ski out to the side vs tipping to develop angles. I'm not saying one is more right than the other, but they are different.
post #111 of 111
I learned a series of drills from a P*** clinician, Darrell Hensley. "Single-track", 1/2 of a ""RR track" , a carved Charleston, and a telemark Charleston.

Charleston is a great exercise for alpine skiers learning telemark, because they need to learn to weight the inside ski more. Charleston with a lead change is really hard, but it's important that you can control the inside ski when your heel is raised. It's not easy while holding the outside ski in the air!
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