Apologies for my devolution here. I regret it, but see no other way to get this ‘out there’ for consideration. Honestly... it kinda makes me puke. Feels like reaching into a filthy toilet trying to retrieve a valuable gold watch that fell in. Not pleasant, but maybe worth it in time.
I’ve no desire to pummel any particular person - just the insidious Tactics I believe are Root Cause
for much of the strife. Such Tactics are harmful to fair and polite communications in that they are aimed (consciously or not) at delivering falsehoods into discussions of Merit. There’s simply no other way to effectively and provably put these Tactics out there for examination than by pointing them out in specific example-posts and directing observers to ongoing patterns of their use.
It is my honest hope that observers willing to wade through this muck will take the time to explore those links I provided earlier and learn to recognize and comprehend these manipulative Tactics. I hope this discussion will cause thread participants to look for such harmful Tactics in their own material *before* posing it - and knowing that such Tactics may well be ‘outed’ by others, chose to remove them from their post and use a fair and reasonable presentation of their idea instead.
I have no desire whatsoever
to thin out or block viewpoints. I’m just sick and tired of the ‘game’ of one-upmanship in fallacious arguments posed to elevate our own degree of perceived ‘Rightness’. It is my hope that this unhappy discussion will cause investigation and introspection though it may well damage me severely in the eyes of many.
LostBoy, you don’t seem lost at all.
It would be great if the T/T forum could get back to its grander roots. I would even be happy to bow-out in generally and allow my own posts to be evaluated by select ‘top pros’ before being presented. If something I’d like to present is deemed ‘inflammatory’ or ‘inappropriate’ I’m cool with it.
Responding to ad nausium diversionary and incorrect information couched in tactical cleverness is a daunting task and I agree that this is likely what has driven many desirable participants away from the forum. It’s just too much work and no real benefit to do so. The vacuum they’ve left has been filled with contests of will, ideological offense & defense, advertising, and Rightness one-upmanship. Many exploratory discussions devolve into Battles of Rightness with the weapon of choice being a cleverly fallacious argument.
I’m sorry you feel that way about my posts in this thread. I dislike writing them.
But it is specifically my intent
to put certain types of ‘communication’ in a box - and to openly declare it inappropriate, harmful and decidedly a form of Bad Behavior on the forum. Yes, it is
presumptuous of me. I am clearly overstepping the bounds of politeness by bringing it up.
Yes; I do think a continuing Pattern of Use
of such tactics does in fact
demonstrate the motives and intent of the person continually using them in place of reasonable arguments of merit. I people wish to present a ‘feeling’ or ‘opinion’ I’m all for it! I simply object to the encapsulation of advertising, opinions and false arguments within tactical misrepresentations and emotional lures.
If you mean EpicSki, I have no wish at all to "...drive people away from this place". If you mean the comfort of packaging falsifications within appealing fallacies, yes I do hope to drive people away from that place
. It is an unhelpful place for both the person using the tactic, for respondents and for observers.
For the record: I despise
having to take on the role of ‘Bad Guy’ but sometimes it’s the only way to bring about a necessary change for the better.
Sometimes all that’s needed is simple word or two quietly spoken to an ‘offender’. Sometimes a polite general discussion is needed between parties. Sometimes a rip-snorting all-out emotional throw-down is needed to get it all “out there”. Then, everyone starts thinking
a little more clearly about what they're doing and greater introspection becomes possible.
Right now, it pretty much sucks to be me. And I do apologize for pursuing this matter in the manner as it obviously doesn't agree with many. I just don't really know another way.
People don't seem to want an external
determination on the merit of the material they post - but we don't seem willing to honestly
evaluate our own material ahead of posting it. Once on the forum, we're forced to defend what we said on and on - or we'll look 'wrong'.
Again, I just didn't see another way.