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Killington/Pico by the number$ - 2006 profit

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
So you've wondered what the numbers look like for ski area operations...

ASC had to break out the revenues/expenses for the mountains they sold off and here are the unaudited numbers for Killington/Pico as they reported them to the SEC for fiscal year 2006 and the first 26 weeks of FY2007.

Using the first two columns you can see the difference between a marginal season start (2006) and the horrible start (snowfall) for 2007. (According to the numbers not much.) I extrapolated the third column (26 weeks ending Jul 30, 2006) to provide a comparison between the first half of the fiscal year and the last half.

If you don't like numbers ... don't look!!:
525x525px-LL-vbattach1833.pdf
post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco View Post
If you don't like numbers ... don't look!!:
MY EYES! MY EYES!!!


So out of curiosity, how'd you choose this thread title? I don't see any profit.
post #3 of 14

Numbers

True they posted consecutive losses, and losses are not sustainable forever. However, cash flow could look drastically different. They could have a reason for posting the losses (thus minimizing taxes) while maximizing cash flow.

You really have to look at many years to figure out what is going on.

Regards,
ODB
post #4 of 14
Looks like a topline revenue difference of $3-4M last year to this in the first six months. Thats what 10%? So this year was 10% worse up to Jan.

Other than that operations were breakeven according to this in 06. Interest expense is up some this year. It's clear they're still paying for past excess (borrowing) in the bottom line. So to spend more like everyone here wants they'd probably have to borrow even more ... I dunno sounds like a "slippery slope" so to speak (get the ski pun?

Wonder what the numbers will be in July .... Hopefully those pow days will add up for em.
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quick follow up, then on the road for the weekend...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
So out of curiosity, how'd you choose this thread title? I don't see any profit.
Not a lot of thought actually - just trying to pick something short and sweet. Maybe I just had my "forward looking" hat on.

Or, maybe it was a little unintentional sarcasm since everyone I ever skied with at an ASC resort said their mountain was the only one in the company making money. Since the numbers have never been broken out before (that I've seen), I thought it was interesting that my suspicion is probably correct ... ALL ASC mountains were losing money.

The numbers for M-Snow/A-tash also ring up negative. Interest being a key factor there too. Without it there would have been a little profit. ... woulda, shoulda, coulda....

Have a nice holiday weekend all!
post #6 of 14
In all fairness to kmart, two things. Their EBIDTA for FY 06 was in the black. A positive thing. I would love to see their 07 3Q(Feb-April 30) numbers as all the resorts in northern NE did pretty well during that time period. They used to report that in the middle of June, perhaps that will be public info?
post #7 of 14
Just the PS is not good enough to gage its success or not. What is the Capital Ex? If they spent 12 million to get the places up running(which I doubt very much), the little EBITDA is not wroth writing home about.
post #8 of 14
Does anyone know some of operating numbers like number of staff, skier days, bed nights, number of days in a season, etc? I'm just curious because the operating expense actually looks pretty low and the revenue surprisingly low.

For the curious, EBITDA at Copper is about 16 million (on operating expenses of about 60 million), Winter Park about 17 million (I might be off on that by a few years), and Whistler is about 75-80 million. So to see a loss of 5 million at Killington on fairly low operating expenses seems weird.
post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHrefugee View Post
In all fairness to kmart, two things. Their EBIDTA for FY 06 was in the black. A positive thing. I would love to see their 07 3Q(Feb-April 30) numbers as all the resorts in northern NE did pretty well during that time period. They used to report that in the middle of June, perhaps that will be public info?
But an awful early season like we had KILLED any momentum they could have had. IMHO that December and first part of January, cost the NE ski industry 40%.
post #10 of 14
Medmarkco..............would it be possible to break Pico out separately? Do they have individual numbers for each resort? I'm wondering if Pico is or can be profitable as a stand alone resort, or if it's just a drag on the entire operation?
post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
Medmarkco..............would it be possible to break Pico out separately? Do they have individual numbers for each resort? I'm wondering if Pico is or can be profitable as a stand alone resort, or if it's just a drag on the entire operation?
Nothing I have seen breaks Pico out since it became an ASC property. Someone inside ASC has the numbers ....

Personally I've skied Pico only once many (many) years ago. Never even crossed my mind to go back.
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinn View Post
Does anyone know some of operating numbers like number of staff, skier days, bed nights, number of days in a season, etc? I'm just curious because the operating expense actually looks pretty low and the revenue surprisingly low.

For the curious, EBITDA at Copper is about 16 million (on operating expenses of about 60 million), Winter Park about 17 million (I might be off on that by a few years), and Whistler is about 75-80 million. So to see a loss of 5 million at Killington on fairly low operating expenses seems weird.
Some basic numbers:
525x525px-LL-vbattach1868.jpg
525x525px-LL-vbattach1869.jpg
post #13 of 14
medmarkco.....thanks for the feedback.

Could you please check out my thread over at K-Zone regarding the Interconnect? I've done a basic ROI, it's on page 5 of the thread:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums...asc&sta rt=60

1st page:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums...ic.php?t=17266

I know it's lots of info, but can you please give it a look and let me know what you think? Am I making a valid arguement here?
post #14 of 14
Um...................yeah..........

.....if you really start doing some digging on the fundamentals.........um..............
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