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Side slipping turns

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Had a couple of oportunities to ski with guys I met on the mountain this season. In each case we went for the woods and had a great time. One of the things that I noticed was the amount of slipping that took place in nearly all of their turns. I stick with a carved turn with a smear added in for really tight spots. These were really tight lines and their slip turns did seem to work well even though they had the effect of cheating.

My question is: where does this type of slip turn, (it's almost a moving side slip while turning) fit in to good skiing. I think it's a skill that is valuable but not used by me. My skis are not good at slipping - Nordica Top Fuels.

Does anyone work with this skill? Is it something that should be used, and if so do you use it?
post #2 of 22
Skidding is fun too. You get a little bit of the thrill that would come with being out of control, except your still in control. It's like driving sideways. Yeeeee - Hawww!
post #3 of 22
Personally, though I would only indulge in sideslipping turns in ideal snow conditions (absolutely flat groomer or very even powder); I would hate to have a side-slipping ski catch on something and trip me up.
post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 
Generally, the snow was pretty good, but the terrain was nasty: rocks, roots, icy waterfalls, tight shots down through trees and narrow chutes, and thin cover too. I would stay with a carve with a skid, they would skid pretty much the whole turn.

There were some hop turns too, and I try to avoid those except when needed. If you avoid hop turns then it's usually too late to go back and use one when needed.

Is a slipping turn amateurish?
post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

Is a slipping turn amateurish?
Is driving sideways on a slippery winter or a muddy road amateurish?
It is if your trying not to; it isn't if you don't have to but want to anyway.
I just think the danger of hitting something with your skis when your skis are going sideways is a lot harder to deal with than when your skis are going forwards.
post #6 of 22
good topic Paul!!!! I wonder where this came from.....

anyone who skis well off piste is going to have multiple ways of slipping a turn. and should be able to carve and slip in the same turn. add upward unweighting, retraction, sometime those dreaded hop turns and these all all things someone who is well rounded skier is going have in his/her bag of skills.
post #7 of 22

Turns-skidding etc.

I have to agree with Bushwacker, a really good off piste skier does not make just one type of turn. There are those who claim they only carve, I once had a level 3 tell me he only carves long radius turns off piste and on piste. Horse Puck, I would really like to see a long radius carved turn in One Man Chute at Kirkwood or a hundred other really narrow, rocky, cliffs on the side steep runs. The really good skiers I've seen or had the pleasure to ski with make all types of turns and don't ridgidly adhere to one dogma or the other. They flow with the mountain and constantly adapt to the terrain.
post #8 of 22
Don't ever sharpen your skis and these turns should be a piece of cake!
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete No. Idaho View Post
I would really like to see a long radius carved turn in One Man Chute at Kirkwood or a hundred other really narrow, rocky, cliffs on the side steep runs. The really good skiers I've seen or had the pleasure to ski with make all types of turns and don't ridgidly adhere to one dogma or the other. They flow with the mountain and constantly adapt to the terrain.
Although I got a lot of compliments, which I liked, it really didn't cut it in that tight situation. I would never claim to be a pure carver, not even on groomers, but I stay with carved turns longer than a lot of skier. Their slipping turns tighten the radius, likeone of those lawmowers that can turn on a dime.

I have tried to work this skill, but my Top Fuels don't want to cooperate.
post #10 of 22
Can you do a normal vertical sideslip with the Top Fuels?
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
Can you do a normal vertical sideslip with the Top Fuels?
you could but Noridca Top Fuel is going to be alot harder to do than on that say Nordica Enforcer Ingnition(probably a great tree ski). Add some tight spots, variable snow, bumps, and the great arc to arc to ski the Top Fuel is will start to fall apart. sidecut, narrowness,stiffness, and edge sharpness hurt you in sideslippy turns.
post #12 of 22
Paul Jones,

I teach a sliding (side slip turn) turn for negotiating very large bumps where speed control is necessary. It is a good skill to learn for either the bumps or any off-piste situations. It is amasing to me how many really good skiers have a hard time flattining their skis in the transition, moving their cm into the new direction and then keep their skis flat enough to to a slide slipping turn. You must keep over your skis to do this, if you incline into the hill too much, you get too much edge engagement.

Slide slipping drills are great for getting balanced over the middle of the ski, which is where any pivoting or guiding should come from which is important in situations like off-piste skiing.


You skis might be more diffucult than some to side slip on (course base structure also makes it harder), but if you get balanced over them and flatten them, they will slip.

RW
RW
post #13 of 22
Gee, I wonder why the L3 exam has pivot side slips!

Get them flat and they will slide. I can get my Salomon 10.3V going sideways.
post #14 of 22
Why? Look at the basics here. The idea is to be where you want to be!

You may not be able to position yourself by carving. If I can get there with a scarve, a hop and some slip, who is in better position? I can now pick my line and you can't.

This is like turning final in a stiff crosswind and hitting the trees cause you wanted to fly "with the ball centered in a perfectly coordinated turn". Sounds good and I bet it would look great on your tombstone too!

:

Good pilots and skiers ... have a good mixed bag to draw from.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Is driving sideways on a slippery winter or a muddy road amateurish?
It is if your trying not to; it isn't if you don't have to but want to anyway.
I just think the danger of hitting something with your skis when your skis are going sideways is a lot harder to deal with than when your skis are going forwards.
This isn't a good analogy. A better car analogy would be driving a car without brakes on a downhill. Then ask if you think if it's amateurish to intentionally put it in a skid to scrub off speed, drift it around a corner, etc.

Sure, it's great to be pointed in the same direction that you are going, but if you are picking up too much speed by doing that, and know how to do a controlled skid, the decision is a no-brainer.

As others have already pointed out, having different techniques in your bag of tricks can only be good. Even Bob Barnes adds, "...when you can" to the end of his famous, "ski the slow line fast" quote.

In fact, there's absolutely no reason you can't switch between the two techniques in the space of a few feet. There have been many times when I've been in a dicey situation, steep, rocks, trees, manky snow, etc. when I'll sideslip a section, point 'em straight to get through a really narrow crux, and then revert back to highly skidded turns (or even hops if it's seriously steep) immediately afterwards to keep my speed in check.

When skiing, driving, or flying, you need to do more than just position yourself at a bunch of points in space, you have to arrive at each point with a suitable speed and pointed in the right direction. Intentionally introducing some skidding often is the only way to do this, even for the best skiers.

YOT

PS - When it comes to manky snow, fats make it **much** easier to do controlled sideslips.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungOldTimer View Post

PS - When it comes to manky snow, fats make it **much** easier to do controlled sideslips.
Now the discussion starts to get more interesting in terms of edge issues, depth, hooking stuff underneath, etc. Add the words "reverse camber" or "rocker" and it gets more interesting yet. Especially with respect to the kinds of turns & conditions I think are being discussed here,,,
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungOldTimer View Post
.

As others have already pointed out, having different techniques in your bag of tricks can only be good. Even Bob Barnes adds, "...when you can" to the end of his famous, "ski the slow line fast" quote.

PS - When it comes to manky snow, fats make it **much** easier to do controlled sideslips.
"When you can"...I like that. Still a slip turn is not something I do well
post #18 of 22
I went in a Masters Super G practise day and noticed all the expert
guys did skidded turns on the steep icy top part of the course.
I was thinking if it had been an instructors examination they may have
all failed by not carving but I think they would have all crashed attempting
a carve anyway and I was not going attempt one either.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
Had a couple of oportunities to ski with guys I met on the mountain this season. In each case we went for the woods and had a great time. One of the things that I noticed was the amount of slipping that took place in nearly all of their turns. I stick with a carved turn with a smear added in for really tight spots. These were really tight lines and their slip turns did seem to work well even though they had the effect of cheating.

My question is: where does this type of slip turn, (it's almost a moving side slip while turning) fit in to good skiing. I think it's a skill that is valuable but not used by me. My skis are not good at slipping - Nordica Top Fuels.

Does anyone work with this skill? Is it something that should be used, and if so do you use it?
If you were skiing in the woods how the heck could you be carving?
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassina View Post
I went in a Masters Super G practise day and noticed all the expert
guys did skidded turns on the steep icy top part of the course.
I was thinking if it had been an instructors examination they may have
all failed by not carving but I think they would have all crashed attempting
a carve anyway and I was not going attempt one either.
Carving you can only do continuously if the slope is not very steep, if its not crowded and if you dont have gates or trees that you need to turn arround and between. The kind of steep icy SG cource you are describing with gates set maybe tighter than what your ski turn radius allows for deffinetly rules out carving as a turning option. And carving is not allways faster eather.
post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
If you were skiing in the woods how the heck could you be carving?
That's a good question. Skiers often release their edges or smear parts of a turn, yet create a carve in some of the turn. I guess for me the end of the turn tends to be smeared but that is not a side slip. When I turn in tight quarters, I use my edges and I finish the turn more than most from what I've seen. With a turn radius of 17m or what ever, it can't be a true carve.

Woods skiing in the east is usually (often) on packed snow and that was the case here.

tdk6, what do you do in a situation like this.
post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
That's a good question. Skiers often release their edges or smear parts of a turn, yet create a carve in some of the turn. I guess for me the end of the turn tends to be smeared but that is not a side slip. When I turn in tight quarters, I use my edges and I finish the turn more than most from what I've seen. With a turn radius of 17m or what ever, it can't be a true carve.

Woods skiing in the east is usually (often) on packed snow and that was the case here.

tdk6, what do you do in a situation like this.
For me carving is running along the edges of my skis and for that I need a hard surface and lots of space. Doesent sound like a good tree skiing consept does it . Anyway, it sounds like you are on the right track with your way of finishing the turns maybe able to stay in the fall line a bit longer. And dont let it fool you that guys look good in their off pist gear and that they are skiing in near vertical terrain. Those guys dont necessary know how to ski that well but that doesent keep them from having a good time and outskiing skiers with faar better technique.
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