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EU issues a warnign about marker binding...

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
post #2 of 32
Friends don't let Friends use Marker Bindings.
But since there are no friends on a powder day. Here is my unbiased recommendation. Buy that Marker! Yeah that's the ticket. The Marker best there is for deep powder. Won't be coming out of that binding. No sir best there is in big dump. Nothing worse then looking for a ski for two hours while I ski past you 3 or 4 laps. Get the Marker. The only reason they put them on sale is They are so good.
post #3 of 32
It should be noted that the problem is with the slider adjustment on rental bindings, not the consumer product. Also, the problem is that they release at the wrong time, not that they don't release.

I haven't had any experience with Markers since I got rid of my Rotomats and Simplex toes, but we should be fair in our warnings.
post #4 of 32
I thought I'd quote the warning in case it disappears. The problem is that the affected binding appears to be integrated with K2 skis. I have used some Markers like the M48ti and the AT binding on my 6 stars without any problem. Its not a favorite, but they have always worked properly for me.

Quote:
Commission warns consumers about dangerous ski bindings.

On 5 February, the European Commission's Directorate General for Health and Consumer Protection (DG SANCO) issued a warning to all EU national consumer authorities regarding a serious risk of injury posed by a set of dangerous ski bindings found on the UK market, as pointed out by UK authorities.
The notification concerns Marker Demo ski bindings, model M1 11.0 D, item number 6778F1SE.
The bindings are affixed to Apache Outlaws, Recons, Crossfires, Stryker and Moto Cross K2 skis.
The notified bindings present a serious risk of injuryto consumers because in certain circumstances the lever can release when kicked or knocked by the user, allowing the boot fittings to move on their track. This may result in injury due to an untimely release of the boots from the skis. Four accidents in the U.S. and one in the UK have been reported until now. The product originates from Germany and is sold at least in the UK and Ireland. The Commission has asked Member States to monitor their markets to check whether this product is on sale in other EU countries.
The ski binding is adaptable to a variety of boot sizes for use primarily in rental applications. The adjustable front and back boot fittings are locked into place on a track by way of a lever at the rear of the mounting.
The notification from the UK authorities was sent using the Rapid Alert System for non-food Products (Rapex). This system enables Member States and the European Commission to rapidly exchange information on unsafe products and actions being taken to remove them from the market.
Further information on the Rapex system and for other notifications (updated every Friday):
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/dyna/rapex/rapex_archives_en.cfm
post #5 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
I thought I'd quote the warning in case it disappears. The problem is that the affected binding appears to be integrated with K2 skis. Marker integrates its bindings in many K2, Volkl, Nordica and other major brands. This is just another reason I don't like system skis.
What about the following escaped your notice:

Quote:
The notification concerns Marker Demo ski bindings, model M1 11.0 D, item number 6778F1SE.
I'm no fan of current markers - although I hope the Duke/Jester live up to their promise. But I would not make the warning out to be more than it is. Especially as a mod with all your power and responsibility and authority and all
post #6 of 32
Well inspite of all my prodigious powers, the part of the warning that really got my attention was:

Quote:
The notified bindings present a serious risk of injuryto consumers because in certain circumstances the lever can release when kicked or knocked by the user, allowing the boot fittings to move on their track. This may result in injury due to an untimely release of the boots from the skis.
I'm not a big fan of the Marker M1 11.0 binding anyway, and it has many variations. The ones sold on consumer skis are not very different, although the locking mechanism for the adjustments may be better implemented on some. I'm sure there are members that have used integrated bindings and experienced "size drift" from use. I would think the hazard is about the same. The binding moves freely on a track and if anything happens to release the pin or lock that holds it in place, it loses forward pressure and releases unpredictably.

EDIT: I would guess that 9 times out of 10, operator error is to blame rather than an accidental change in binding size or binding failure.
post #7 of 32
Good point. Spindrift. This warning was about a specific demo binding that I have never seen and has nothing to do with any other product.

A little spindoctoring there huh. Bush, Cirque???
post #8 of 32
Marker=prerelease.
post #9 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
Good point. Spindrift. This warning was about a specific demo binding that I have never seen and has nothing to do with any other product.

A little spindoctoring there huh. Bush, Cirque???
if you click on the link it wasnt spin doctorin so anyone that read the link knows what the problem was.

I had the same bindings, I had them before I beleive the TGR thing about markers sucking. They prereleased on my several time at speed going straight.
post #10 of 32
I'm not arguing about the general retention vs release issue. Just following Posaune in pointing out that the notice is focused on a specific model of binding & appears to indicate more that unwanted release can happen due to the sole length adjustment being kicked loose. This is not the usual issue discussed wrt to markers...

Oh - and I was not arguing any spin doctoring. Just giving Tom a hard time since I have not done that in a while
post #11 of 32
1 - There's a two-month old thread on this already.

2 - It's a model nobody would ever buy, except a rental shop.

3 - You've got to be pretty stupid to kick the lever with your boot, allowing the binding to slide freely, and not notice. Presumably, you can't kick the lever with your boot while your boot is in the binding, so you'd have to do it while putting it on or taking it off.

4 - The likelihood of a clueless person putting on this specific binding and failing to notice that it's not fixed in place is probably orders of magnitude smaller than the likelihood of a similarly clueless person trying to put on just about any binding with an inch of compacted snow under his boot sole.
post #12 of 32
i rode a Mantra/Marker Titanium 13 Piston set-up for about 20 days fairly hard with no problems other than me and my buddies couldn't tell the difference between the "On" and "Off" position of the piston (there's a switch under the toe piece. That and they were heavy as a mutha.

i rode the new Duke one day fairly hard @ Loveland on a pair of Icelantics and that binding felt burly. I'm seriously eyeing those for next season to finally have an AT set-up.

my understanding of this warning, however, is that they were demo bindings, which always have more of an issue with me because of the quick adjustment switches that allow you to size them to any manner of boot in a second.

But hey, since I don't own or plan to own any K2's in the near (or ever) future, i don't see a problem with me and these Markers (I'm more partial to Tyrolia Mojo's personally).
post #13 of 32
This happened to a friend when we were at Vail in February. On a powder day, unfortunately. We all skied to the bottom of Chair 12 ... it isn't that far, couldn't figure out where he was ... we waited, and waited, and we eventually see a guy walking down the Headwall holding his skis.

He was demoing Recons, and the binding had busted. With the help of a passing patroller and some of his ties or wire or something, they jerry-rigged it until he could get up the lift and back down the front to the shop. The shop then proceeded to explain the problem, and said, Yeah, it's been a bit of an issue with these particular demo bindings.

(And they were still USING them, with a known problem like that??)
post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
if you click on the link it wasnt spin doctorin so anyone that read the link knows what the problem was.

I had the same bindings, I had them before I beleive the TGR thing about markers sucking. They prereleased on my several time at speed going straight.
I did read it. This is a specific warning about one model of many in the Marker line. You guys were casting this impression upon other bindings that Marker makes.
When you take information about a specific event or product and then tailor it to fit a bias about another subject then it is spindoctoring
post #15 of 32
my steel 514s mounted on my Jet Fuels rock. They are my first pair of Markers. Knock on wood, they have never pre-released on me. Of course, they're set on 12 and I don't huck on my carving boards.

bushwackerinPa- your bindings are releasing on you while going straight? Dude, adjust your forward pressure, and crank your din. WTF? Or- scrape the snow off your boot.

There are heaps of WC athletes that don't have a problem with them. Would Volkl, K2, Nordica, amongst others even exist on the world cup without Markers?
post #16 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
my steel 514s mounted on my Jet Fuels rock. They are my first pair of Markers. Knock on wood, they have never pre-released on me. Of course, they're set on 12 and I don't huck on my carving boards.

bushwackerinPa- your bindings are releasing on you while going straight? Dude, adjust your forward pressure, and crank your din. WTF? Or- scrape the snow off your boot.

There are heaps of WC athletes that don't have a problem with them. Would Volkl, K2, Nordica, amongst others even exist on the world cup without Markers?
I got rid of the binding. They were set by a shop and then I cranked the din up to 13 and they still came off. My Px12ti which are no way that 'great" of a binding are set at 10.5 on the same skis and have never prereleased.
post #17 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
I had the same bindings...
The M1 11D? The demo/rental? It cranked up to 13?

I'm confused.

And- If you are a binding-cranker, you should also be adjusting your forward pressure as well as your heal placement. Cranking DIN alone doesn't make a binding fit tighter. Shops set them so they "will" release, and sometimes that technician is a bit too conservative.
post #18 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
The M1 11D? The demo/rental? It cranked up to 13?

I'm confused.

And- If you are a binding-cranker, you should also be adjusting your forward pressure as well as your heal placement. Cranking DIN alone doesn't make a binding fit tighter. Shops set them so they "will" release, and sometimes that technician is a bit too conservative.
Mine were comp 14.0s which were recalled.

I am not a binding cranker, I chart at 10.0. and run 10.5 on my gotama all the ways down to 8.0 on my Public Enemies and 5.0 on my teaching skis.
post #19 of 32
why were the comp 14's recalled?
post #20 of 32
Thread Starter 
prerelease and the toe wings break apart.
post #21 of 32
hmmm. I assume that's the same toe piece as my 514s on my nordies. Perhaps I should be concerned?
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post
1 - There's a two-month old thread on this already.

2 - It's a model nobody would ever buy, except a rental shop.

3 - You've got to be pretty stupid to kick the lever with your boot, allowing the binding to slide freely, and not notice. Presumably, you can't kick the lever with your boot while your boot is in the binding, so you'd have to do it while putting it on or taking it off.

4 - The likelihood of a clueless person putting on this specific binding and failing to notice that it's not fixed in place is probably orders of magnitude smaller than the likelihood of a similarly clueless person trying to put on just about any binding with an inch of compacted snow under his boot sole.
As usual, Right On!
post #23 of 32
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" [Originally attributed to Chicken Little.]

Have had Markers, Tyrolias, Looks, Rossignols - no problems. They stay on when they should and they release when I'm glad they did.
post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Marker=prerelease.
It might not be the bindings. Have you tried "Detain"?
post #25 of 32
Why is it that people are so quick to dump all over Marker bindings and yet scracer has started a new thread about problems with Atomic bindings prereleasing?

I've skied on Look and Marker bindings and last season went back to Marker bindings becasue both my Hot Rods and Dobermans came with Marker bindings. No problem either in or out of the race course with pre-release. In fact, I bought two more pairs of skis at the end of the season with Marker bindings.
post #26 of 32
Thread Starter 
I have never had the problem on the system skis that marker makes, but on flats ski that are being used in powder they prerelease when the skis decambers. The system ski doesnt have the same problem because its mounted on a track.
post #27 of 32
Since it seems Bush is getting some opposition here...I'll just give a quick anecdote...

150lbs level 8/9 skier on a flat slope with 4-5 inches of fresh. My skis are on top with no tip dive, going straight...din at 10...And this somehow became a recipe for the worst case of whiplash I've ever had. I was going maybe 15 miles an hour and double ejected with a full faceplant.

Markers prerelease when, as Bush said, the ski decambers. It pops the boot directly out. There's a reason they get slammed so hard at TGR; if you jump off something and decamber the ski, you have insta-release.

I haven't skied the Atomics, and honestly didn't have a big problem with Markers when they worked, but it's pretty well documented that they have at least one serious design flaw.

They even recognize it, in a backhanded way--what other manufacturer makes a 30 DIN binding? Doesn't that strike you as a little ridiculous? I read that as "we're compensating for a problem somewhere else."
post #28 of 32
guys ..it is not like you all to be behind the times, this information was in the public domain [anounced by K2 themselves, in every mag and posters sent out to all the stockists] here in the UK back in early January
post #29 of 32
I've read more Marker threads than I care to recall, and I am sure that there are models of Markers that are poor at best, however I've never had any trouble with the ones I've skied.

I bought a pair of vintage 190 Chubbs which came mounted with M44s which have a max DIN of 9. I intended to remount them with Salomons, but had to try them out. I set the DIN at 8.5, which is just over what all my other bindings are set to, and skied them, and skied them some more. I ended up skiing them more than any other pair of skis this past season, and never had them release when they shouldn't have.

Now I'm not a cliff hucker or anything, but I am pretty big (6'4" and 190) and I certainly couldn't be considered a timid skier. I tend to avoid skiing groomers, and charge down steep terrain (including the double blacks at Discovery) in about any conditions, and did so with these intermediate Markers. No problems whatsoever.

I also have M51 Graphite demos on my Ti Supers which I ski on icy bumps, and never had them prerelease.

I think that some Markers are bad bindings for some people, and some of them are just bad bindings, but I have never had any problems with mine.
post #30 of 32

Not these bindings, but...

... I bought used skis with a different brand (salomon) of
demo bindings on them. This has got me wondering,
because when I set them up I remember thinking
"Gee, that sole-length adjustment locking lever seems
awfully easy to move."

I wonder if this is a generic design problem with adjustments
that are "too easy" to make.

I may see if I can figure out someway to make sure that
lever doesn't move.
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