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First turns - A short video

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Since spring is here, I thought I would share the highlight of the season : both my kids are on skis now.

Here's a very poor video of Alice, age 4, in april.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V41xkL7kvNo


To her defence, that's the only time I thought to film her, with a still camera (and the battery died on me...), but she was tired. Usualy her stance is closer and she's starting to loose the wedge, to turn more parallel.

But, in her words: "I love to ski"
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post #2 of 25
Very nice. Right where she should be at age 4.

Where was that taken? Looks nice.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Pretty sure it was the Glacier run, on Val d'Isère. One of the blue cruisers on the Solaise side anyway.
post #4 of 25
Philippe, do you mean up at the top of Le Fornet - above the bubble, and up the T-bar?
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Nope. Not on the real Glacier, but on the run named "glacier", along the "glacier" chairlift. ie on the solaise part, above "Le Laisinant".
We didn't go higher than that with a 4 years old. Pretty exciting already !

Edit, for those who know the area, on one of those blues. Maybe Plan Millet actualy.
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post #6 of 25
Ah, memories...

I know it well!
post #7 of 25
She seems very relaxed and in control.
post #8 of 25
Quite a privileged young lady to be able to ski at a place like that at age 4! You go girl!!!
post #9 of 25
Having taught 4 year olds before, that is very impressive, but her big smile says even more!

Mike
post #10 of 25
AHA moments come in small packages! Thanks for sharing
post #11 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
AHA moments come in small packages! Thanks for sharing
Well, thanks for the new idiomatic expression ! (I had to google it...) A aha moment indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckimson View Post
Having taught 4 year olds before, that is very impressive, but her big smile says even more!
Mike
I'm sure it has to do with the cute instructor.
She's really a girl...
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post #12 of 25
man that brings back memories
post #13 of 25
Great stuff Philippe! Can't wait to see how my son improves this year. He's four now too.

Attachment 2098
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post #14 of 25
Philippe - unable to access video; message says "this is a private video and you must accept the sender's friend request"?? Is there a secret?
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmc View Post
Philippe - unable to access video; message says "this is a private video and you must accept the sender's friend request"?? Is there a secret?
It should be ok now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post
Great stuff Philippe! Can't wait to see how my son improves this year. He's four now too.
Eh, both my kids got into it at 4. In a few seasons he'll outski you...
post #16 of 25
Thanks; it works now. I love to watch little kids ski!
post #17 of 25
Awesome, Philippe! Having a great time, well balanced (typical stance for a 4 year old), offensive (trying to go where the path of the skier ahead leads, and trying to keep up, rather than slow down), upper body very stable (slight rotation to the left sometimes, but I wouldn't worry too much), both legs rotating at hips to guide skis, with minimal pushing of the outside ski tail into a skid, outside ski holding the line and helping shape the turn, . . . . Not much to take away from that--let her keep at it!

I'm looking forward to Episode II this season.

Now, would you care for some critique of the person in the lead?



Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Go for it ! I could use it against her, when necessary...
(That's my wife in front of Alice. Trying hard to ski slowly while pretending to not).
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
In a few seasons he'll outski you...
If it takes that long, I'll consider it a personal victory!
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Go for it ! I could use it against her, when necessary...
(That's my wife in front of Alice. Trying hard to ski slowly while pretending to not).
Well, all right, but don't blame me if you end up on the couch some cold winter night!

It is clear that the lead skier (your wife) is trying to avoid going too fast, so that your daughter can keep up. In that regard, you could argue that the technique she's using is doing exactly what it needs to do.

But while your daughter, Alice, is clearly offensive, trying to keep up, and guiding her ski tips into the turns, your wife is using a very defensive technique, pushing her tails, one at a time, out of the turn into a skid. It is a classic example of the old "down, up, and around" techniques, although quite refined. Specifically, each turn begins by setting the edge of the downhill ski to create the solid platform from which she then pushes off--uphill ski first--with a distiinct rotation of her arms and upper body into the turn first to pull the tails out and around. Notice that her arms clearly start the turn, before her skis. She also levers forward strongly against her boot tongues--note the exaggerated forward lean of her shins--which makes it easier to push the tails out and around. Note also the tell-tale Z-shaped line that this technique inevitably causes.

Contrast this technique with your daughter's turns. While Alice is in a wedge, her turns are still quite offensive. She is, at least, trying to turn her ski tips into the turn--"right tip right to go right," as I like to describe it. Her low speed, wide stance, and some twisting and leaning of her body conspire sometimes to cause the outside ski tail still to twist out and skid more, especially in right turns. But the intent is right, and the movements are definitely on the right track!

In short, it looks like when Alice turns, she is trying to "go that way" (chasing her mom), while when your wife turns, she is trying to "stop going this way." Can you see that? Perhaps her technique entirely results from genuinely trying not to go faster, but if it is how she usually skis in other situations (and I'll bet it is), she might enjoy playing with some other movements and thoughts.

Specifically, if she were to focus on rounding out the bottoms of her turns more, guiding her skis not in a traverse, but actually back up the hill a little, it would accomplish the goal of skiing slowly enough for your daughter to follow. And it would slow her down enough before the next turn that she'd very likely adopt a whole different movement pattern to start that turn, based on the desire to speed up, rather than the desire to slow down. Right tip right to GO right, not left tail left to stop going left!

Enjoy the couch!



Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
Awesome.
Food for thought, that I'll submit to the Mrs.
And use for myself, as I must be guilty of the same sins. I guess I would have skied that way while leading Alice.
Thanks.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes/Colorado View Post
Well, all right, but don't blame me if you end up on the couch some cold winter night!

It is clear that the lead skier (your wife) is trying to avoid going too fast, so that your daughter can keep up. In that regard, you could argue that the technique she's using is doing exactly what it needs to do.

But while your daughter, Alice, is clearly offensive, trying to keep up, and guiding her ski tips into the turns, your wife is using a very defensive technique, pushing her tails, one at a time, out of the turn into a skid. It is a classic example of the old "down, up, and around" techniques, although quite refined. Specifically, each turn begins by setting the edge of the downhill ski to create the solid platform from which she then pushes off--uphill ski first--with a distiinct rotation of her arms and upper body into the turn first to pull the tails out and around. Notice that her arms clearly start the turn, before her skis. She also levers forward strongly against her boot tongues--note the exaggerated forward lean of her shins--which makes it easier to push the tails out and around. Note also the tell-tale Z-shaped line that this technique inevitably causes.

Contrast this technique with your daughter's turns. While Alice is in a wedge, her turns are still quite offensive. She is, at least, trying to turn her ski tips into the turn--"right tip right to go right," as I like to describe it. Her low speed, wide stance, and some twisting and leaning of her body conspire sometimes to cause the outside ski tail still to twist out and skid more, especially in right turns. But the intent is right, and the movements are definitely on the right track!

In short, it looks like when Alice turns, she is trying to "go that way" (chasing her mom), while when your wife turns, she is trying to "stop going this way." Can you see that? Perhaps her technique entirely results from genuinely trying not to go faster, but if it is how she usually skis in other situations (and I'll bet it is), she might enjoy playing with some other movements and thoughts.

Specifically, if she were to focus on rounding out the bottoms of her turns more, guiding her skis not in a traverse, but actually back up the hill a little, it would accomplish the goal of skiing slowly enough for your daughter to follow. And it would slow her down enough before the next turn that she'd very likely adopt a whole different movement pattern to start that turn, based on the desire to speed up, rather than the desire to slow down. Right tip right to GO right, not left tail left to stop going left!

Enjoy the couch!



Best regards,
Bob Barnes

To me, the terrain looked too flat to make more aggressive turns
post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
To elaborate : I don't think she could have really "back up the hill" to scrub speed before the next turn. It was indeed really flat and really slow. And she was trying to maintain a steady pace.

So, in a way, she had to skid the tails at the end of the turn, to a certain degree.

But the analysis pointing out the old school vertical movements, strong front pressure on the boots tongue ... is probably valuable to her usual, at a more faster pace, skiing. Those flaws are here exagerated, and underlined, in the context of this video. But not specific to this context.
I'm less sure about upper body movements. I think what appears to be a turn initiation from the torso is actualy her trying to see Alice behind.

She would probably answer that she's able to use different styles according to the context and that she can carve with the better of them... And she would have a point.

Anyway, an impressive MA on a few frames.
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
She would also say that I have way too much time in my hands if I tried to discuss skiing technique in october, over an internet video of Alice.
Thus I will save this debate with her for a more alpine setting...
post #25 of 25
Absolutely beautiful to watch. Awwwww!
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