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retuning a detuned ski?

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Noob tuning question.

I asked my local shop to do a stone grind and 1* base bevel on a pair of Dynastar Omecarve 10's, planning to then do the sides myself, and follow with summer storage wax. This was their first stone grind. To my knowledge the tips were not detuned before this -- though they did have a few shop tunes and I don't know for sure what happened in the back room, when I got em back they always seemed pretty sharp tip to tail.

Now they seem pretty rounded and dull up front, for about 5 inches or so back from the contact point. I tried a file and diamond stones on the sides -- not sharp; very sharp the rest of the ski though, back to the tail. So I tried re-filing the base bevel, a Ski Man 1* base bevel guide, file, then 200 / 400 diamond stones; still rounded in the first 5 inches, and again, very sharp the rest of the ski going back. So one or two more times on the edges with the file and stones. Maybe a little improved but still dull compared to the rest of the ski which you could almost shave with (or at least take shavings off your fingernail). Edge guide = 3*.

My first impulse is to keep at it with the file up in the rounded area, alternating base and side, to re-establish the edge. And then diamond stone to smooth it out. But I know that I could lose a lot of metal doing this so I thought I'd ask if any more experienced hands had suggestions.


PS the weird thing is I gave the same instructions to the shop with a few other pair and none of the others came back with the same problem -- all pretty sharp up front.
post #2 of 8
It sounds as though some one has run your tips on a belt grinder and really rounded the edges. I have seen this a bit from shops that mainly run rental fleets ie they want skis that are very forgiving for the average punter.

If you asked for a base grind then they should have left it as 1* the entire length, one could understand a slight de-tuing if one had asked for a tune.

Basically if you have not got what you paid for then go back to them and ask them to do the job properly - the main concern now is how much will they have to skim off a perfectly good base in order to give you a decent edge back?

Given that you are probably going to lose 2-3 grinds worth of base material to get a proper edge again I think that you have every right to be quite upset.

Always remember that being nice to people - including those that have made a mess of things is generally more productive.
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
Thanks. Am I correct in thinking that without additional base grinds, the more I go at the base bevel with my file - even in the 1* file guide - I'll just increase the base bevel angle and get a weird handling ski?

I do try to be nice ... and leave plenty of time for them to fix the screwups, which are not infrequent. Every time I go in with a batch of skis for base grind, mounting, or whatever, I end up driving back with a problem. And yet this is the least bad of a lot of bad local options for ski service, so I'm loyal and hope it will eventually pay off.
post #4 of 8
Here's a thread on base grinding and base bevel relationships.

A few options to remove base material (as little as possible and carefully) by yourself are:

1) flat filing with coarse or body/panzer file
2) metal scraper
3) sandpaper with solid backing like a block or scraper

Another option includes rationalization. : Depending on where and when you ski next and the conditions, though less than ideal, the skis 'as is' may be 'more than adequate', especially in softer conditions. Subsequent tunes can then get it down to ideal sharpness. If this doesn't work for you then more cutting and base removal sounds necessary by yourself or by the shop.

YMMV regarding the increase of the base (up to 2°) and reduction of side edge angle (2°). I'd say your skill, performance level of the skis, snow conditions and 'real feel' during turns will also weigh in on how big of an issue this will be. If it was me, I'd see it as a chance to determine if I could really tell the difference and adjust things after receiving feedback making turns. I find going to a 2° side bevel from a 3° side edge bevel isn't a huge difference for me.

post #5 of 8
Thread Starter 
Thanks, a lot to digest in that other thread.

These are my hard snow skis and I see a lot of hard / icey conditions since I'm in the east (for softer / deeper I've got other boards). So given the variables you laid out I think I want to do something, and losing a little base material may be the best option. Whether I do it myself or get the shop to regrind up there will depend on shop response but they've always tried to make good on other screwups.

I agree I've not been overwhelmed by a 1* difference in side bevel but base bevel seems more sensitive. At least judging from my experience going from flat to 1* ... I'm afraid increasing beyond 1* will give up a lot of grip.
post #6 of 8
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
If it was me, I'd see it as a chance to determine if I could really tell the difference and adjust things after receiving feedback making turns.
post #7 of 8
I would just sharpen the side edges at the tips and tails and stop removing material from the base. You may need to use a file or even a sidewall planer. I have found it is very difficult to get the edge angle consistent with a guide because of the amount of curvature near the tips.

Maybe they dulled the tips and tails for you. Maybe they just did it by accident removing a bur. Only they know. Talk to them. I have learned to always be very specific when I get any tuning done.
post #8 of 8
Originally Posted by ts01 View Post
I'm afraid increasing beyond 1* will give up a lot of grip.
FWIW, on a pair of used Havocs with more than a 2° base bevel, I found additional knee angulation easily compensated for the 'loss of grip'. It was also easier to feather into turns and carve. The 1° I changes them to did seem to get on an edge faster with less angulation and effort.
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