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(lesser skilled) PMTS student video - Page 3

post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Max, please back up this comment with more data. I'm not disagreeing with you neccessarily, but please provide information about why you think PMTS supports reverse sidecut skis.
First of all lets look at the original post:

Quote:
PMTS and PSIA technique doest work so well on skis with nearly or next to no sidecut or reversed sidecut.
With regards to skis with little sidecut PMTS works just fine. I'm not sure about the reverse sidecut boards, but if you want to carve killer arcs in powder are you still tipping?
post #62 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
You may want to retract your comment about HH because that page isn't a page from the PMTS website. Its the home page of Realskiers.
well Alta/bird does not support realskiers then, I would retract but on epic I cant self mod myself.
post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
well Alta/bird does not support realskiers then
I'm not saying they do, just wondering why you think they don't.
post #64 of 83
I don't get PMTS! Isn't carvingskis all about not lifting ones feet!?
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I'm not saying they do, just wondering why you think they don't.
Well, I work at alta (and BWPA works @ snowbird) and have never, ever heard realskiers mentioned anywhere but here. You think that if the company suported it, then they would tell their employees about it (Alta is very good about such things...)

Now with that being said, does realskiers suport pmts other than just letting their forums have a parking place on their webserver?
post #66 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrooK View Post
I don't get PMTS! Isn't carvingskis all about not lifting ones feet!?
PMTS is basically WC technique applied to recreational skiing.
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
PMTS is basically WC technique applied to recreational skiing.
Hey:! They stole my idea; I've been copying WC DH technique for recreational skiing since the 1970s. Oh, wait. They're doing slalom.

If thats all it was then there would be thousands of PMTS schools, because I'm sure there are lots of non-pmts people and instruction schools besides me using the same technique.
post #68 of 83
Guys guys guys, calm down. Realskiers is not owned by HH and really has nothing to do with PMTS other than the fact that Peter Keelty(the owner of realskiers.com) allows HH to host his forum there for the time being.

The fact that those logos are on the left side only indicates that those resorts are supporters of the realskiers site in some way, it is not an indication that PMTS is in any way taught in full, partially taught, eluded to or otherwise not taught at all at those mountain ski schools. Peter Keelty resides in Park City and its perfectly believable to me that he would have gotten some kind of sponsorship from those resorts in Utah in some way. Peter Keelty primarily is involved with ski equipment review
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Guys guys guys, calm down. w
Yeah, get some sleep and chill out.:
post #70 of 83
Thread Starter 
TDK6, I don't know how much help I can be with your questions, but I'll try. About the speed- I really can't tell you if I hit the brakes intentionally or if it was due to technique flaws earlier in the turn. I'm inclined to think the latter, because there was really no need to slow down at those points. Tipping the inside foot- if I lead the tipping with the inside foot, it ensures that I will not stem the start of the turn. It also promotes a movement of the hips that is connected to what the skis are doing-unless I resist the hips moving into the turn, this is a flaw I do sometimes. Harald talks about tipping the stance foot as the turn develops, but that's more of an advanced thing that I'm not ready for. Maybe Max can shed some light on that.
post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Therusty,
Thanks for the lesson on snow evaluation from video. Maybe sharper edges would not help. What about bigger tipping angles, more counter balance (unless the sharper turns don't warrant it at the given speed) and more counter?
Ghost,

MA of this clip was not asked for, so my comments apply to the question in general. In general, an average higher edge angle will reduce the skidding under these kinds of conditions. However, a more important factor is the timing of edge angle change. When the highest edge angle is achieved after the skis pass the fall line and there is very little edge angle being engaged above the fall line, then skidding will be one of the usual results. This can be fixed only way via PMTS - using the primary movements. It is these movements that result in higher tipping angles, versus higher tipping angles themselves eliminating the skidding.

If you want to determine if Miles's counter is appropriate, one possible method is to compare the angles of the shoulder and hips to the amount of tip lead at various points in the turn. One theory of good skiing has zero tip lead and the hips and shoulders all square when the skis are directly in the fall line as an ideal position. Under this theory, although we rarely achieve the ideal it's something we work toward. Another theory allows the tip lead change to occur above the fall line. This too can be good skiing, just trying to achieve a different outcome. However, under either theory, counter should be progressively and smoothly changing throughout a turn. An indication of inefficient skiing would be too much counter in one part of a turn relative to other parts and/or too little counter and/or different rates of change in counter throughout a turn. But please remember that PMTS does not use the term "counter". In PMTS "counter balancing" has a different meaning than counter.

Miles knows what to do. He just needs to become more skilled at these movements. Anyone can become an expert skier.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
But please remember that PMTS does not use the term "counter". In PMTS "counter balancing" has a different meaning than counter.
In Essentials, the term "counter" seems to be used as a synonym for "counteracting" (chapter 5). What do you mean it does not use that term?
post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilh View Post
In Essentials, the term "counter" seems to be used as a synonym for "counteracting" (chapter 5). What do you mean it does not use that term?
I was just going to mention the same thing.
post #74 of 83
I don't have Essentials. I was trying to remember the counter acting terminology but I did not find it after a quick search through what I had available. I was trying to come up with something like:
counter + angulation = counter acting + counter balancing
with the caveat that is not an exact match, but that's the rough takeaway from what I've been exposed to.
post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I think you have a misunderstanding here as this is not a one ski pressure technique.
I thaught that the phantom move invloved inside ski lifting and pulling back. Thats how I made my demo for HH and he verfied that it was correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't try to slow down at the transition as speed control comes before the transition. I don't see too much flexing or too much speed.
I think of fall line to fall line as a whole. Anyway, you are right. Speed controll comes from before the transition but if you flex too early you lose some of that speed controll. You need to build tention and then relese. Now I see too much hesitation right after the transition and that could be because MilesB is carrying too much speed.
post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
I thaught that the phantom move invloved inside ski lifting and pulling back. Thats how I made my demo for HH and he verfied that it was correct.
For the phantom you can pick up the ski or just lighten it and leave it on the snow. Of course that is an outside ski dominant movement.

Earlier you said that tipping the inside foot was a one ski pressure technique and that is where I was pointing out that you have a misunderstanding. I always tip the new inside ski first regardless of the weight distribution.
post #77 of 83
I had an old girlfriend that insisted you did not have to tip the new inside ski. You could say that drove a wedge into our relationship.
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
For the phantom you can pick up the ski or just lighten it and leave it on the snow. Of course that is an outside ski dominant movement.

Earlier you said that tipping the inside foot was a one ski pressure technique and that is where I was pointing out that you have a misunderstanding. I always tip the new inside ski first regardless of the weight distribution.
Ok, actually thats what I ment, outside ski dominance insted of a one ski pressure technique.

The tipping of the inside foot so much in ref to the outside foot that a gap is visiable between the legs is something I dont quite understand. From an austrian standpoint that would not be accepted and also not approved by mogul skiing standards (FIS). However, this would be a problem only if you skied with your legs together. If you have them apart nobody will see the inside foot tilt. BTW, I wonder if HH has ever given any pointers to telemark skiers..... I know he has been working with waterskiers.
post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
The tipping of the inside foot so much in ref to the outside foot that a gap is visiable between the legs is something I dont quite understand.
Ideally the old outside ski is fully released before the new outside ski is engaged. The PMTS tipping method assures that this is the case.

Why not just tip both of them at the same time? Because its harder to tip to the outside than to the inside, so many (perhaps most) skiers that attempt a simultaneous edge change end up with too much edging of the new outside ski or even a push off of that ski because the old stance ski is not yet released as its moving to the new angle slower than the new outside ski.
post #80 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Because earlier this season a few bears called on PMTS students to post their skiing. The gist of the posts were that we could talk, but could we walk?
I'm trying to figure this out, still. Since this is "lesser skilled," what kind of insights should we draw from it, and what kind of comments should we make? Is there any judgment that is considered to be "fair" based on this being posted?

To me, the skiing looks controlled on this slope, and so there are confidence and some good skills being shown. However, I concur with many of therusty's thoughts on the skiing, and wonder if mileb believes that he's mostly using the sidecut of the ski or mostly using muscle power to bring them around.

I also find it interesting that the turn mechanisms change from turn to turn, and the later turns are quite different from the earliest one.
post #81 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Ideally the old outside ski is fully released before the new outside ski is engaged. The PMTS tipping method assures that this is the case.

Why not just tip both of them at the same time? Because its harder to tip to the outside than to the inside, so many (perhaps most) skiers that attempt a simultaneous edge change end up with too much edging of the new outside ski or even a push off of that ski because the old stance ski is not yet released as its moving to the new angle slower than the new outside ski.
All other skier besides PMTS skiers tip their skis simultaniously (at least that how I see it). At expert level there is no problem with getting a simultanious edgechange but at lower level there is offcourse. This is where the old stance ski relese could come in handy as a drill but in Austria the cowboy stance at the relese would not be considered right and at expert level as a flaw. In mogul skiing there would be points nocked off but PMTS is offcourse not a FIS mogul skiing technique (neather is mine).
post #82 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
I'm trying to figure this out, still. Since this is "lesser skilled," what kind of insights should we draw from it, and what kind of comments should we make? Is there any judgment that is considered to be "fair" based on this being posted?

To me, the skiing looks controlled on this slope, and so there are confidence and some good skills being shown. However, I concur with many of therusty's thoughts on the skiing, and wonder if mileb believes that he's mostly using the sidecut of the ski or mostly using muscle power to bring them around.

I also find it interesting that the turn mechanisms change from turn to turn, and the later turns are quite different from the earliest one.
I think there are many strange things with this run. First of all milesb is not really using the terrain. He carves (PMTS term for this kind of turn.... I call them skidded) down the slope neglecting the bumps. Secondly his gear is a big question to me, why ski with such old, long, never tuned sh***y skis! And make a video out of it and then put it up for display of lower level PMTS skiing. I wonder what it would have looked like if he had been on his Supershapes.
post #83 of 83
Thread Starter 
tdk6, it's OK that you find my skiing to be strange! I can explain the skis thing easily- alot of the skiing ( not in this video) that day was in fairly rotten snow that even those fat skis sank boot deep into. Plus they are my rock skis, which as you can see are a good choice. I don't have supershapes, the other skis I use are 167 rossi 9s with a 15 meter radius. It might have looked very similiar on those skis, because without the early counterbalance and other stuff I am not doing consistently, no skis are going to carve well on a run like this. BTW, I also call my skiing here skidding, but I completely understand why Harald wants to make a distinction. But it's really about the movements. Higher level PMTS skiing here would display more carving due to better and more aggressive use of the same movements I'm using most of the time. I don't know why I neglected the bumps, other than it was pretty fun line I took. Or maybe it was all that icy cold beer on a warm day.
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