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Red Sox 2007 Juggernaut? - Page 2

post #31 of 179
Smoltz is still Smoltz. I think the batters were tired from swinging in the first game. Miserable weather lately too - misty and cool. Made for a nasty round of golf yesterday ....
post #32 of 179
WAY 2 early 2 tell -- lets look again in August
post #33 of 179
a win's a win. We'll take it! Manny finally was Manny last night. Good win. Mussina looks terrible ....
post #34 of 179

not exactly earth-shaking observations, but sad nonetheless

Yankees and Red Sox: Money Well Wasted

Published: May 23, 2007

For nearly a century, the Boston Red Sox and the Yankees have made each other crazy. Lately, it may be more true than ever.

They have always been rivals and baseball enemies, even if now it seems to have less to do with snarling on-field confrontations. Watching today’s opposing players kibitz on the field before games could make one wistful for the days when Thurman Munson and Carlton Fisk would convincingly insult each other across the batting cage during pregame warm-ups.

Now the enmity has been moved to a higher level of battle, to team front offices, where the dollars and sense seem to move in opposite directions. Enemies? You bet. In the modern era of escalating salaries, the Red Sox and the Yankees have become their own worst enemies.

Last night at Yankee Stadium provided the setting for a good example in how a wonderful rivalry has made reckless bedfellows. On the first-base side of the diamond, the Yankees waited another day to announce whether Carl Pavano would have season-ending reconstructive elbow surgery. There may be a sliver of hope that Pavano will return to the Yankees, but it felt more like forestalling the inevitable. Pavano is more than likely a $40 million humiliation waiting to be registered on the loss part of the ledger.

And who brought on this careless investment in 2004? Go back to December of that year and recall how zealously the Red Sox pursued Pavano, who 10 years earlier had been a Red Sox draft pick. The result was a manic battle between the Yankees and the Red Sox over Pavano, the holder of an unspectacular 57-58 career record to that point. Nonetheless, the Yankees had Manager Joe Torre make personal appeals by telephone to Pavano, imploring him to come to New York. Boston’s response to that was to have its pitching ace, Curt Schilling, have Pavano for lunch at his home.

It seems unlikely that the Detroit Tigers, the Baltimore Orioles or the Los Angeles Dodgers could bring out such enticement and counterwooing in either the Yankees or the Red Sox, especially for a pitcher with two winning seasons after six years in the major leagues.

But when the primary competition is the Red Sox or the Yankees, neither side can think straight. In the end, those old rivals from early in the 20th century combined to make Pavano a well-paid disappointment.

The folly did not stop there. Days after the Yankees signed Pavano, the Red Sox would not be outdone. They found their own mediocre pitcher in the free-agent pool and signed Matt Clement, the poor man’s Carl Pavano. Clement had a career record at that point of 69-75 with two marginally successful seasons in six years in the big leagues. Sound familiar?

He received a $25 million contract from Boston.

Last night at Yankee Stadium, Clement was, like Pavano, nowhere to be found. Clement is rehabilitating his surgically rebuilt shoulder in Florida and is not expected to pitch for the Red Sox again. Although he won 13 games in his first season for Boston, most of that success came from a 6-2 start. Last season, Clement was Pavano-like, frequently injured and appearing in only 12 games with a 5-5 record.

Pavano’s Yankees record to date: 5-6 in 19 starts. Or about $8 million a victory.

There was precedent for the crazed free-agent conflict these teams bring out in each other: the recruitment and battle for pitcher José Contreras in 2003. That confrontation, which people thought the Yankees won, cost the team $32 million for 15 victories in 2003 and 2004. Perhaps fittingly, Contreras was sent to the Chicago White Sox in large part because he could never seem to defeat the Red Sox.

Contreras, of course, has since compiled a 37-24 record for the White Sox, and helped them win a World Series title in 2005.

Even the most recent off-season brought out more impractical dealings involving the Yankees and Boston. When the Red Sox won the bidding for the Japanese pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka by forking over $103.1 million, the Yankees could not help themselves. It was as if it were 2004 all over again and the teams had reversed roles.

Like the Red Sox chasing Clement, the Yankees pursued Japan’s Kei Igawa, whom they scooped up for a tidy $46 million. Igawa, after stumbling to a 7.63 earned run average with the Yankees this year, is at the team’s minor league complex in Tampa, Fla., where he is learning a new way to throw the ball to home plate. In effect, the Yankees have spent $46 million for someone whom they are now reteaching the basics of his position, as if he were a raw prospect in high school.

It may be the greatest rivalry in baseball, but it makes those in it crazy.
post #35 of 179
well at least Scott Boras is making $$ no matter what

I think the Sox and Yanks are doing OK too in that department despite the uneven playoff performances. More interesting now though because of the strength of the Central because now a wildcard race is wide open til late August. All the more reason to extend the trade deadline so the madness can magnify all the more!
post #36 of 179
Thread Starter 
Doesn't make me crazy, I love it!

Never liked Pavano, didn't like Clement either. I certainly don't like Clemens for the money george is gonna pay for him.....sawx have loose change ready to make a run at free agents as June/July bugaboos pop up.

I like dice-k his stuff is ridiculous.....he will end up worth every single penny.

A-rod a little too excited sliding into 2nd last night, but he broke up the double play. Non call by the ump.....but he might get a Schilling buzz by tonight.....I hope not let the sleeping dawg lie. A brawl is not what sawx need at the moment.

manny and ortiz are not even luke warm yet, the juggernaut is just barely reved up

post #37 of 179
The Sox have not played their best baseball yet.

"Drew? Drew? Is there a J.D. Drew in the house?"
post #38 of 179
Thread Starter 

red sox 2007


I dunno.....

sure is a baseball version of a freight train right now tho....:

wooo hooo

go sawx 1 more for +20 ova
post #39 of 179
yeah ... lookin good right now in the 8th. Oh lookie here the Yankees are losing again. Teehee

They're on a roll!
post #40 of 179

big money factoid

Youkilis is making a little over 60-grand more than the major league minimum.
post #41 of 179
Looks like things are well in hand with Beckett going tonight to remain undefeated. With Lester coming back in a few more times through the rotation, it MIGHT even make sense to keep Tavarez in there vs Wake - he's had some bad starts.

Where are the weaknesses? I guess the bats can go south. Or injuries, who knows. Of course JD Drew hasn't even warmed up yet. With starting pitching being where it is I don't see any prolonged slumps this season.

I'm starting to do scenarios like "if the Sox go .500 the rest of the way, how many games must the Yankees (or Toronto/Baltimore) have to win to catch up" It's fun being in first .

Realistically if they go 10 games over .500 they'll win 101 games, meaning almost certain AL east division title. OTOH if they continue they're current pace or the rest of the year (not out of the question), they'll win 111 games. Most likely I think is around 105.
post #42 of 179
Any team is a hamstring or two away from mediocrity.

Chickens, hatching, ya know?
post #43 of 179
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
Any team is a hamstring or two away from mediocrity.

Chickens, hatching, ya know?
Yo SMJ how you doin? Normally I'd agree with you....but I been to pawsox games. You still off to fenway for the B Bondsfest?

Sawx are loaded, this should be a long run. Bronx bomber fans better saddle up for some long term suffering

Now that Giambi is out does Cashman panic and make a run at Mark Teixeira? Only way Texas makes that move midseason is for Hughes. If NY runs at him do sawx block with counteroffer. Boston so loaded in the minors a deal could get done. Should Theo mess with the obvious chemistry? I think Teixeira is a monster...but hard to find any fault with Youk and Lowell right now. Suppose you could bench Drew and put Youk in the of....again, why mess with +20 games over?

Or will Yanks just pack it in forget a run at the wild card and reload for next year?

I think Ryan is right.....sawx best ball of the season hasn't been played yet:
post #44 of 179
I agree not to mess with things, unless JD Drew never pans out.

Look at the standings, why change a thing?

I'm going on Sunday the 17th to see the Barry at Fenway with 2 step kids.

I agree the Sox look great, and am not trying to be negative. I believe!

However just think about the effect if say Varitek went down! Last year the team fell apart without his handling of the pitchers. Just being realistic. Hope they get an official game in tonight.
post #45 of 179
Thread Starter 
Sawx brass really covets Teixeira tho, if I am not mistaken they drafted him high and he didn't sign....can't recall the precise details.

Be interested to see if George blows out the minors again in a panic move to counter the dreaded, despised and yes now feared Boston Red Sox......


Red Sox nation of course hopes George panics once again

Clemens is gonna retire
post #46 of 179
Kind of like the way the Soviet Union was brought down, trying to keep up with the US space and weaponry efforts.
post #47 of 179
I think it's way too early to concede the AL East, but during the news broadcast on the same station that carries the Yankee games, the announcer said "with the AL East looking out of reach for the Bombers, they're turning their sights toward the wild card." Pretty dumb given all the history with these two teams.

But I agree, the Yankee front office falls for the Soviet Union arms build-up charade every time. Dopes.

Still, it was great watching your golden boy serve up a Papelbomb to A-Rod last night... on a two-out, 0-2 count, no less.
post #48 of 179
Owww...that stung a bit.

Still, in a three game series the sox only gave up a game in the standings. We can do that the rest of the way. Looks like the Yankees bats are starting to wake up. Melky in center field makes the Yankees a better team than damon out there. Let's hope george doesn't realise the team is better with young players than older 'SuperStars!!' [pronounced with slight lisp].
post #49 of 179
Yup - congratulations go to Mr April. Time for him to head out on the road and get a few hotties

post #50 of 179
Those masks were pretty funny.

I love how on the national TV broadcast, the announcers could only discuss A-Rod's "off-field controversy" -- that he was banging a blonde stripper -- in the most cryptic way imaginable. Is it because the story is considered too salacious for the public or is the network in bed with his publicist?

I've been a big critic of A-Rod, but his stock definitely went up with me after the two Toronto incidents last weekend.
post #51 of 179
Thread Starter 

5 in a row? NOT QUITE SO FAST!!!! red light rescue

Almost had to eat some crow as I said in original post no way this team loses 5 straight......cause it's all about pitching. Of course I didn't think my team would forget how to hit

Dice - k and wake spin gems and lose. Tavares even ok the other night in the 11 inning debacle....

But bloody sock boy gets r done and saves me from epicski shame!!!:

Lugo doesn't make the error he doesn't pitch to stewart.....and faces the minimum. Tek called for a slider, Schilling shook him off clean line drive single by stewart ends the no hit bid with 2 outs in the ninth.

yankee fans call him red light.....

I call schill the man, thanks big fella
post #52 of 179

from 14.5 to 9.5

Still a ways to go to climb out of the hole the Yankees dug themselves into, but a market correction seems to be taking place.
post #53 of 179
Interesting to see the parallels between Yankees and Red Sox "fans" who fill the stadiums at away games:
post #54 of 179
Ho hum. Things keep chugging along. The Sox have only played about .500 ball in the past 6 weeks but their lead is still double digit thanks to the AL (l)east teams. Hitting was in a slump at least until Ellsbury came up.

The effect though is that the season is becoming much shorter than 79 games or whatever is left. Elimination number is down to 68 or 69 now for the division. And then there are all those games against Tampa remaining.

The Angels and Indians will be interesting - we'll see how well things go against them the next several weeks. Maybe Papi will snap out of it and back into his old self by then.
post #55 of 179
The number I'm focused on is 70. That's the number of losses at which point I'll say that the Yankees are not going to make the playoffs. 92-70 won't do it.

@ 39-42 that leaves 28 losses, thus a 53 -28 record the rest of the way out. Doable. A couple more weeks of .500 or less ball and it'll be too deep a hole to dig out of.

Oh yeah and Go Sox too!
post #56 of 179

question I've always wanted to ask

Why does Varitek wear a captain's "C" on his jersey? Unless I'm mistaken, the reason they have it in hockey is because the captain is the only one allowed to discuss calls and rule interpretations with the referee. In baseball, the captain title is purely symbolic.

Just wondrin'.

I don't see how the Sox can blow their lead... they play Tampa Bay something like 30 times between now and the end of the season.
post #57 of 179
And your point is?

The Yankees play them the same amount, just earlier in the season...how'd that work out for ya?
post #58 of 179
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
And your point is?
That the Yankees have played like crap most of this season and that we need an Act of God to win our tenth straight division title.

Jesus, you Chowds are a testy bunch.
post #59 of 179
Keep calling us "chowds" and we'll keep with the clammy comments.
post #60 of 179
My comment was testy?

You, James, mentioned the 'easy' schedule the sox have for the second half. I simply pointed out it's the same schedule the Yanks sputtered through in the first half.

No 'act of God' is going to help this year. Your season is done, you can stick a fork in it. Just look at the numbers and what the yanks would need to do to make up a 12 game defecit from here...play .700 while Boston plays .450? I don't think so.
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