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How honest can one be... Intructor ethics! - Page 2

post #31 of 42
Dogs and clients who don't respond to command style teaching?

Knock em' down, get them in a headlock and growl in their ear!

Establish the "Alpha" relationship from the get-go!
post #32 of 42
My personal belief is that there are very few exceptions to there is no wrong way to ski (one would be knowingly jeopardizing the safety of others). One teaching method I use is:
Here's what I see.
Here's what I want to see.
Here's how we're going to do that.

I usually don't have trouble with people misinterpreting "here's what I see" with "that's wrong". If I hear someone talking about "I'm doing it wrong", I'll go into my canned speech about there is no wrong way to ski. There are easier ways to ski and harder ways to ski. There are safer and less safer ways to ski. There are fun ways to ski and boring ways to ski. There are fast ways to ski and slow ways to ski. Etc. Etc. How you mix these choices is your decision. My job is to give you more options to choose from.
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
.... There are easier ways to ski and harder ways to ski. There are safer and less safer ways to ski. There are fun ways to ski and boring ways to ski. There are fast ways to ski and slow ways to ski. Etc. Etc. How you mix these choices is your decision. My job is to give you more options to choose from.
More instructors need to see this and take it to heart. It really sums up what we should be doing.
post #34 of 42
My jury is out on that one. When it comes to good solid basics I think I would lean toward being rigid regarding those fundamentals. Feet a little close or plant versus touch ... ok .. who cares? It's when you see them struggle and expending an additional 50% more energy burning out to "accomodate" flawed basics, you aren't doing the client a favor.
post #35 of 42
How about a little portable device that administers a small electro shock everytime the student gets it wrong?
post #36 of 42
No. I tried. Water seepage can cause the capacitor to send the amps where you don't want them.

Arcing puts holes in the Goretex and the new jacket was almost $250.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
No. I tried. Water seepage can cause the capacitor to send the amps where you don't want them.

Arcing puts holes in the Goretex and the new jacket was almost $250.
Thanks. I'll remember that!

For me, the right or wrong of it is a collaboration between the student and I. I don't let them get off with "what am I doing wrong". We define it together, and I coach that a bit, by defining what it is for me. And the main elements of the definition are four questions:

Is it efficient? Is it effective? Is it versatile? Is it fun?

These make it easy to help the student understand what it is we're about. It's also based on the understanding that all habits are solutions. So we just apply the questions to the solutions, and come up with what could be changed, or not. In this way, the student is a full participant in a motivation for change that is not based on inadequacy.

I'm think of changing the questions though. Is it stupid? What the hell are you doing? Aren't you embarrassed? Why are you wasting my time?

Squatty, of course, has developed the best version, in an imitation of Ian McClain the terrific New Zealand coach.

1. That's adequate. (translation: really good)
2. That ain't it. (translation: you're making some mistakes that have to be fixed)
3. What the f--- was that? (translation: that was really bad)

Each time, again, in imitation, he takes a drag on an imaginary cigarette (like Ian does with a real one) before making the statement. This signifies, that the coach needs to relax and get centered before he really goes off on the student.

And it works for him. It's all in the delivery!
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Some people want to hear "you suck" and why because they already know they suck and they are tired of all the sugar coating.
Yep, and those are the people who are willing to pay the most for lessons and get the most out of them in my opinion.
post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
Squatty, of course, has developed the best version, in an imitation of Ian McClain the terrific New Zealand coach.

1. That's adequate. (translation: really good)
2. That ain't it. (translation: you're making some mistakes that have to be fixed)
3. What the f--- was that? (translation: that was really bad)

Each time, again, in imitation, he takes a drag on an imaginary cigarette (like Ian does with a real one) before making the statement. This signifies, that the coach needs to relax and get centered before he really goes off on the student.

And it works for him. It's all in the delivery!
The legend of Squatty Schuler, I have never met the man, but every time I hear someone quote him he makes my job easier and more fun, he gives me great ideas to work with .
post #40 of 42
Ah yes. I've been the recipient of #2 above, complete with air-cigarette. Not from Mr. Schuler but a Protégé. I'm hoping to work my way up to #1 next season and am now grateful it wasn't #3!


Contrary to some opinions, most students aren't stupid and know when they are being BS'd. No one wants to spend the vast sums to be flattered without substance. We've endured way too much of the self-esteem fad over the past 20 years and it has not got us anywhere except to breed a lot of mistrusting, overly sensitive young adults. That said, you can absolutely teach via positive feedback without resorting to false compliments. And you do not need to humiliate or beat up a student to get them to improve. But, you all know that...
post #41 of 42
A long time ago, I was forced to go to a trade show with one of the "senior sales" reps. He was a crusty old guy; a real slob (but with money) and a bad, bad "rug".

We are sitting at the bar of this hotel and a hooker comes over and puts the moves on him. They schmooze back and forth in this wierd game of "lets pretend to have a real conversation" ..... and then they exchange (room numbers)?

This old fart looks over at me as she wiggles off and he .... all school boy smitten .... says .. "I think she likes me". :

What kind of "instructor" are you? What kind of "clients" do you have?
post #42 of 42
Usually, the skier looking for unvarnished truth wants negative feedback. They grew up with it and it is part of them. Some people thrive on it. My way around that is to avoid the good/bad trap altogether. How often have you heard the following question?
"Did I do it right?"
I try to avoid all of that by asking them how did that feel, any different? If they say no, most likely they did not change anything. If they say kinda, but I had a little trouble with... then the question has been answered without ever using subjective actions. At that point we proceed to address the missing elements that will help them execute the task more precisely. If they say Yes, I propose we groove the move and when they feel comfortable with that move I suggest we take it to new terain. Unless of course they say yes and demonstrate no change what so ever. Only then will I tell them I did not see enough of a change. So we try it again with a stronger focus on exaggerating the task.
In my conclusion I mention the changes we made and we jointly assess their comfort level with those changes.
I feel honest self assessment is more important to them in the long run. Showing excitement and passion for their learning is important but so often it comes across as less than genuine if we use too much positive praise.
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