My review of the PSIA national Academy - Page 4

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This struck me as kind of odd, too.

I don't really think there are many examiners or D-teamers who teach skiing "because they like to tell people they are ski instructors". These people love skiing just as much, if not more, than everybody on this site. In fact, they love skiing so much, they don't waste their time getting in meaningless arguments over the internet with random people about proper turn entry. They're busy out there getting it (much like ski junkie, who has only put up a couple posts over many years because he's busy skiing).

I'd guess that Examiners and D-Teamers get deeper into the system for the same reasons that other guy mentioned: to change it from the inside. PSIA is pretty progressive in this way. If you don't like how things are run, you can get Examiner status and start to change things. And it's just a hunch, but if you have an innovative ideas (and can ski well enough to back them up), they'll usher you right the ranks pretty quickly . . . so long as your innovation doesn't include tai chi skiing . . .

BWPA, you're not eloquent with words???? Go figure:

I did get the humour of your post, but still wonder sometimes if anyone understands that not everyone enjoys skiing the same way, and most people enjoy a different skiing experience themselves from day to day.

I don't ski the same terrain every day nor the same speed, nor the .............oh, you get the idea.

I think everyone is kinda reading over the most important part. POWDER, there was powder on the ground and they were skiing groomers!: Sure they're leaving more for the rest of us, thats all well and good, but how can they even call them selves skiers when they are passing up a resort powderday (not your average everyday experience) to do drills on groomers? Its powder guys. I dont really have words to discribe how this confuses me because I don't really have words to describe powder, but I'm pretty sure most of you know what I mean when I say, "ITS POWDER common" even if I cant articulte it very well.

There are a lot of people who ski mainly in the East, who are pretty good skiers (technically speaking), and who don't know how to ski powder. It's not a sin unless you live in Utah fulltime...

You dont need to know how to ski it. ITS POWDER! You need to go out and play in it. Thats what skiings about anyways, fun.

For what it's worth I agree. But then I ski mostly out West and I like lots of fluffy...

I've always wanted to do the National Academy (or ever since they opened it up to level Is ), but I'm not fast enough to go with the top groups, so I would be stuck on the piste, listening to examiner talk. Or I can ditch the group and forget about the money I spent...

OK, this thread may not make people decide to forego lessons from PSIA. On second thought, they might be glad to know they are practicing teaching even when they go to Snowbird and there is powder inbounds. This thread might discourage people from attending National Academy though!

If this event includes telemark groups, I'm sure they let even the slow old telemarkers play in the new snow.

The guy who said to take off-piste clinic if that's what you want nailed it.

Don't let the blather here deter you. If I had really wanted to go into the powder more I would have done so in afternoon clinics, and I would also have switched groups to a more agressive group. Even in the slowest group we spent most of Monday in powder, and had lots of off-piste opportunities at other times. In many cases I was skiing the ungroomed while others in the group skied the portion of the same trail which had been groomed.

Unless this Academy was different from any others I've attended, the participants had the opportunity to choose a group with the focus and intensity they desired. Some come to work on general technique at a moderate intensity. Some may be recovering from injuries. Some may be part timers. Those folks might have been the ones observed and criticised. I assure you, others were skiing the entire mountain at very high intensity. Jerry Berg and Bob Barnes were participants there. I doubt they were among the skiers Bushwhacker observed cluttering his cat tracks and doing medium-radius carves on narrow skis on the groomers. The Academy is a learning environment geared to instructors of varying levels of expertise. Sorry you were offended.

Are people really all that impressed by an instructor's jacket and pin? Everyone uses it as an argument of sorts, but I don't know ... maybe people just think others are impressed by it. No offense intended or anything, just curious.

I guess I am impressed in some ways, except it's more along the lines of the way I am impressed by tennis and golf instructors: either they have the patience of Job, or they are mildly insane! (possibly both?) :-)

(Posted by someone who has taken only 2 or 3 ski lessons but quite a few tennis lessons, and knows that teaching either would indeed make her go crazy.)

On Monday (just gone) me and another Epic Skier were eyeing groups from the divisional academy, and pretty much the same thought occurred to both of us. The leaders looked great, they were skiing the skis, working the turns, getting into it.

But the line strung out behind them looked like garden statues on tiny skis. I've never seen such a collection of weird, stiff poses.

And regarding your later point that groups were avoiding the powder because some PSIA members couldn't ski it, they have no business wearing a ski school uniform if they cannot ski well enough to get off the groomed. and I'm serious about that.

Rubbish! I did two seasons in Vermont, and got plenty of fresh snow (of varying wetnesses). Fresh snow is fresh snow, I guess we call all of it powder, and it's what skiing's all about. If you need a machine to squash down the snow before you can "ski" it, there's something seriously wrong.

I take all ability levels into fresh snow, even level 1s. And they ALL end up loving it. Trick is, you have to do it, you have to get out there and get into it.

The issue isn't so much related to being impressed by jacket/pin, but "unimpressed". You'll see it in various forums and hear it on the hill - conversation about how poorly an instructor skis and the resulting conclusion that there is nothing to be gained from a lesson with a PSIA instructor.

The interesting difference between tennis and skiing is that someone wins and someone loses in tennis. Unless you're involved in ski racing (or Nordic jumping, etc.), deciding who "wins/is better" or "loses" is all subjective. By default, in many ways ski instruction is the same unless very specific and measurable goals are established.

Now that is utter nonsense, I got more face shots in Vermont this season than I did out West this season, in fact Jay Peak, Stowe, Smugglers Notch and Sugarbush all got as much or more snow that Snowbird this season. Jay Peak averages about 350 inches a year more than most of the resorts in Colorado. Eastern skiers devour powder with abandon. Regardless of region, the average recreational skier doesn't ski deep powder well, but experienced skiers regardless of where they ski can be proficient powder skiers in my opinion.

Exactly! Taking even the most novice experienced skier in fresh snow changes there attitude and perspective for ever about skiing. My 5 year old daughter skied powder for the first time last season at 4 with her instructor while still a power wedger and now she tells EVERYONE who will listen that her favorite thing to ski is the powder.

I haven't taught beginner skiers in a several years (because I coach an upper level seasonal program exclusively), but I certainly would take low lever skiers in powder, although nothing deeper than their boots under level 6.

Huh? How so outside of working on basic skills? Skiing deals with real fears, fear of being HURT, I don't know anyone when they first start playing tennis do they fear breaking something or running into a tree or unmarked obstacle. Skiing instruction is WAY different than tennis instruction in my opinion...

Now that's funny!

I hear you, but I disagree, there are some great ski teachers who teach kids or beginners who no longer have or had great skills to ski off piste, however they are very patient and perfect instructors to teach levels 1 - 5 in my opinion. A lot of these instructors are retirement age and beyond or physically limited because of past injuries or other medical reasons. I certainly welcome them apart of ski schools, they are great and building new skiers which we so desperately need.

While Vermont and Maine are in the East I was generally thinking of resorts closer to the City, if you know what I mean.

And it seems you would not be included in that group, so nothing personal here. I know a lot of people who ski pretty well on groomed, but fall to pieces in deep snow.

Actually the intent of the last sentence was to correlate the subjective nature of identifying "better skiing" with the subjective outcome of a ski lesson.

Tennis has easily measurable metrics for assessing improvement. A tennis goal of being a better server can be measured by % of first serves in, fewer average double faults, etc. Being a better bump skier is not so measurable. A student may feel more confident, feel more fluid, but what quantifiable metrics do you use to measure progress? A race coach on the other hand, does have specific metrics to use.

As far as fear, I agree - I didn't have much fear when starting tennis. It started later when I began running into courtside obstacles at full speed, diving for passing shots, and tearing ligaments - all in the name of winning … the point, the set, the match. At some point, fear has to become a "back-of-mind" issue in skiing. The sooner you see the white spaces and not the trees, the sooner you can get on with learning. (that doesn't mean the trees go away… just that you stop focusing on them)

The skill sets between the two may be different, but I don't see the difference in strategy/tactics and progression planning.

I assume Baldy in your location refers to the summit of Mt Ellen? The big thing right now in the east is tree skiing. Resorts here are improving the tree skiing faster than you can say....

Since the season is almost over, last weekend coming up at the Bush, here is a pic after one of the storms this season near the Bush. I think the car on the right is mine.

If their skiing is so poor, their understanding so flawed, that they cannot ski on soft, uneven snow, then what on earth are they teaching the kids and beginners?

Lots of shades of gray, but not being fully versed in quantum mechanics or string theory doesn't mean a 6th grade school teacher can't impart a solid understanding of some basic principles of physics. Same idea.

pow is hardly quantum mechanics

as far as the 'telling people you're a ski instructor/whose impressed by pins' bit, if you can't ski pow, and you're teaching, you might have to ask yourself about your motivation.

Who's impressed by a pin? Apparently the people paying money to the PSIA as opposed to normal mtn ops.

Besides, it's not to impress the old fartbags,
Chicks in the bar, man, chicks in the bar.
Ol' cougars from Texas is what they are after!

So far, I'm still wondering,
is there a definatively higher skiing standard with PSIA, or is just some paperwork and paying dues?

Cause if it's just dues, who wouldn't pay it to get access to more pro-deals.

And who brags about being a ski instructor? Every instructor that comes into our shop.

At our snow sporst school anyone who skis at level 7 (for real, not by self-declaration) or higher during a lesson is very likely going to be recruited as an instructor. Now when we are overloaded with applicants skiing that level or higher, the average skiing skill among instructors may reach the lofty levels suggested by some of the posts here. When those who are posting here think that none of the instructors at the Academy in the slower skiing groups are adequate skiers to be teacing anyone, however, I think there is a disconnect with reality. If ski teaching were a state-sponsored career, as in France, we could all go to school for more than six months full-time in our twenties and spend a lifetime refining world-class skiing skills. That isn't the case here. maybe if it were there would be more market forhigh-end lessons, but I doubt it. At least 70% of our lessons are level 3 and below, with at least half of the total never-evers. These folks need to be taught by solid communicators who are willing to learn about how students learn, and then apply that knowledge. I don't see that personality requirement as dominating among the hottest skiers, who huck cliffs and get face shots on a regular basis. Further, just skiing with daring doesn't mean you have more skill, anymore than driving 85 mph in a 55 mph zone implies you have more driving skill than I do when I drive 65, or when my son's godfather does when he exactly matches the limit. It may mean you are evalutaing risks differently, and perhaps evaluatiing risks in a manner less compatible with the goals of potential students.

Sorry, higher than what?

Ski teaching is not state sponsored in France.

I don’t really understand why the letters PSIA gets so many panties in wad?

If you’re a consumer of ski instruction, PSIA is just your assurance that the instructor participates in an organization which attempts to standardize competency and a defined teaching progression.

If you’re a member, you’re working within your own organization to establish minimum standards of proficiency as measured against a continually evolving level of skills.

It really isn’t any different than a group of carpenters getting together and saying can we all agree there is “good” carpentry and “bad” carpentry. For example, take Woody over there – he’s a hell of a framer, best in the business in my opinion. BUT, I’d hire my grandmother to do finish work before I’d hire him. Woody, we’re taking up a collection for finish work instruction if you want to participate. To which Woody replies, nah, that’s OK I’m going to stick with framing. I like it and I’m good at it. If you want me to leave the carpentry group, just say so.

… the off season must officially be here … (in the States)

I don't know, everybody's obsessed with 'levels'

Do you have to be a certain 'level' to teach. Like a '6' at
least?

Or do you just have to be a couple of levels ahead of the
class you're teaching?

No Baldy sits between The Bird and Alta, my western adopted home mountain. Well tree skiing at the Bush is about as perfect as you can get, to me Sugarbush has the best tree skiing in East, even better than Jay.