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Which Harb book should I buy? - Page 2

post #31 of 49
I'm going to plug for HH's expert 2 book. Only the last two chapters are focused on powder/ bumps-the rest is a point by point guide to building the perfect short turn via two dif releases..all the tipping cues and such from the first bok are contained within this one PLUS fine-tuned applicability to "3-D" terrain. AND it has the best video of the three books.

Essentials is great...BUT, it's best for the technique junkie who relentlessly pursue's this sort of perfection (It'd be hard to learn from it IMHO-but it will refine your technique to a pretty high standard..well, as much as any book and self-guided lesson can anyway).

For those on the much lower end of intermediate I think Lito's last iteration of Breakthrough on skis is the best written.

Pretty good stuf all around.

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post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
1. find somebody who skis better than you AND is a Harb disciple and convince them to teach you what's in the books.

2. find somebody who already owns the books...
thanks, miles.
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post
I'm going to plug for HH's expert 2 book. Only the last two chapters are focused on powder/ bumps-the rest is a point by point guide to building the perfect short turn via two dif releases..all the tipping cues and such from the first bok are contained within this one PLUS fine-tuned applicability to "3-D" terrain. AND it has the best video of the three books.

Essentials is great...BUT, it's best for the technique junkie who relentlessly pursue's this sort of perfection (It'd be hard to learn from it IMHO-but it will refine your technique to a pretty high standard..well, as much as any book and self-guided lesson can anyway).

For those on the much lower end of intermediate I think Lito's last iteration of Breakthrough on skis is the best written.

Pretty good stuf all around.
One more comment here at risk of getting a bit off topic from the orig posters question (this is a great thread BTW IMHO)

I fear a lot of folks who would garner much help from Lito's breakthrough I are turned off a bit by the title (breakthough, out of intermediate rut etc)

Lito's efforts are much more than that. The drills he so brilliantly demonstrates in Breakthrough I were all demonstrated and practiced in every PSIA clinic I attended in the 90's. 100% identical. I was lucky enough at the time that all my clinics were lead by high level examiners. All of those drills clearly depicted in Lito's first vid are designed to improve balance and stance as well as dial in techniques used exclusively by experts. Doing the drills he depicts will make nearly any skier better. The ability to effectively balance on either foot on any terrain is IMHO the key to high performance skiing. This is where Lito (and I guess Harb too) desire to take their students.

The footage of Jerry Berg making high speed gs turns in Breakthrough I is in my opinion some of the most beautiful skiing ever filmed. Crystal clear depiction of what high performance skiing is all about. Absolutely brilliant. I have spent over 10 years trying to copy those turns. If you have seen it, you know what I mean. It was a joy to see clips of Berg skiing in the last ESA....I wish we would put up more of it.

Everything Lito demonstrates in Breakthrough I is either straight from ATS or centerline or an embellishment. Thousand steps, early weight shift, 1 foot balancing on cat tracks, anticipation yadi yadi....it is all the same stuff dumbed down. If you look at www.amsao.it after viewing Lito you will again see many if not all of the same drills, albeit updated a bit with more angles due to modern ski technology.

If you are not an instructor and want to understand ski technique without the jargon and noise, Breakthrough I is the place to start. www.amsao.it updates it for modern gear.

just turn off the soundunless you speak italian
post #34 of 49
I'll agree with everything you've said. Breakthrough 1 definitley changed my skiing for the better. Still has to be one of the best instructional videos ever made. Seemed to fill in the missing ingredients that traditional ski instruction left out. And you're right about Jerry Berg, had to be one of the most inspirational skiers I've ever seen, on and off piste, at least on video. Never had the pleasure of skiing with him. Too bad he chooses not to post here (or maybe he does under a different handle). Truly one of the best technical skiers I've seen, the best being Harb.
post #35 of 49
Thread Starter 
Okay, so let's tally up the votes:

We have two votes for Expert 1.
We have two votes for Expert 2.
We have one vote for Essentials.
We have four votes for you're a cheap bastard, just buy them all.
We have four votes for you're a fool, just get out and ski.
We have four votes for non-Harb books written in the 1920s.


Nice to know you can ask a question on the Internet and get a clear-cut answer. Thanks!
post #36 of 49
how about taking up golf.

i've begun to notice that a lot of really keen skiers also play golf.

there's gotta be a correlation in there somewhere and maybe a few skills to parlay from one to the other, no?
post #37 of 49
Why not do it all? The guys at TGR had a lot of fun with the Harbl thread- but it wasn't about the skiing, Which everyone knows can be really good, it was that it's taken so damn seriously. After all, were just sliding down a hill with sticks on our feet for fun, remember?
When I was learning to ski, (still am) like 1988, I pretty much memorized Lito's first "Breakthrough on Skis" book and endlessly worked on early turn initiation, etc. There's stuff in that book I used today, dealing with breakable crust at Alta (anything facing east- everything north and west was killer)
So mileage without knowledge is usually just gapering about tail gunning at high speed like my ex- brother in law " Cowboys don't need directions" from eastern Montana.
Use anything Harb can give you, but don't follow leaders and feed your parking meters...
post #38 of 49
Only prob with reading books and then trying out what you have read is that there is no one to tell you if you are doing it wrong. Nothing beats an in person lesson once in a while.
post #39 of 49
I skied with moguljunkie on Friday and he's already a strong skier, so don't let his false modesty fool you.
post #40 of 49
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the compliment, but after just seeing some video of myself outside the bumps for the first time, there's definitely more old-school in my style than I would like. So I think I'll start with Experts 1 after all and rebuild from the ground up.
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguljunkie View Post
But that's just something I'm going to have to discover on my own.
I think you just answered your own question. You already stated that you don't ski too often. You feel you can improve by reading a book. They are not mutually exclusive. To improve on any skill, practice makes perfect.
post #42 of 49
Quote:
To improve on any skill, practice makes perfect.
Practice makes permanent, perfect practice makes perfect....
post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Fiddle View Post
S...s... seriously? Why the **** would you buy a book from him? Get out and ski, stop worrying about his techniques.
This advice is deceptively wise.

I think just skiing more CAN be the best way to get better. True, like a cuople people have said, it can lead to just skiing faster/harder without improving your technique, BUT in order to focus on your technique without anyone pointing anything out to you, you really have to improve your spatial awareness, and the awareness of exactly what your body is doing at all times.

That in itself is priceless. I really think a lot of people don't have that great of body awareness. You see a lot of people skiing, and they look like they're all tense and afraid of the speed they're going, like thier whole body is clenched up.

I'm sure an occasional lesson, in addition, can help, up to a point, but nothing beats really being able to calm yourself and focus on what you're doing.
post #44 of 49
The year I first viewed Lito's video I ski'd 105 days....

Having a few drills to do on catwalks and flats and some turn initiation tricks to learn helped for sure....especially for me as a visual learner. Having the lucky opportunity to dial in the moves and get high level coaching and feedback at a couple of PSIA-E clinics helped too.

but without the huge miles of my boots on the snow....

sometimes ya gotta just shaddap and ski:
post #45 of 49
A very strong vote for Expert Skier 2. The fundamentals of PMTS turns are developed in first 100 pages, then carving, bumps and powder are covered. CD is much more complete, make sure your player supports slo mo. Expert Skier 2 will teach you the basics 6 essential skills.
I've got all 3 the books. Each is about 200 pages and I just think thats too much to absorb.
The Bob Barnes quote which describes the tipping motion felt in your feet is very close to the PMTS tipping method of initiating ski turns.
Finally, knowledge is power. With the internet, you can learn so many things and have much better success than trial and error. We remember very little of what we hear, and, much more of what we read. All I know is that I was a better skier on the first day skiing this year because I spent some hours learning PMTS via Expert Skier 2.
post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
how about taking up golf.

i've begun to notice that a lot of really keen skiers also play golf.

there's gotta be a correlation in there somewhere and maybe a few skills to parlay from one to the other, no?
dookey lets hyjack this thread.

Reason #1 Golf is nothing like skiing.
When your golf game is off, it really bugs you and gets under your skin.
When your skiing is off, you still smile, laugh and have a great time......not so with golf!!

**Moguljunkie, get the most recent book of Harbs, if you're gonna do it. I understand he has "altered" some of his original teaching method and the new stuff is better.............but then I really hate reading stuff like this and haven't read any of them.
post #47 of 49
Check out half.com or amazon for used copies of the materials you want. I found Lito's tapes very helpful and can't comment on the HH materials.
post #48 of 49
Go with Essentials. Essentials is very comprehensive and is a refinement of the materials presented in the previous books. Essentials is a very well organized instruction book that in my opinion does a great job of tying the skill sets together that comprise the "Essentials" and provides drills for each movement pattern . There's a lot of content in the book . I've read through it at least sevral times now and I always find something that I missed in a previous reading. The book is well worth the money.
post #49 of 49
Thread Starter 
Okay, after having a couple of days to get over the initial shock of seeing my skiing on video (and if you haven't done it yourself, I highly recommend the torture), I realize I don't really need to rebuild from the ground up. Other than some minor adjustments, the main thing I need to work on is short-radius turns on sort-of-steep non-densely-moguled terrain. If it's really steep with really big bumps, I'm fine, since the bumps guide my turns. But I'm still working on properly blending a carve and, as they say in PMTS, a brushed carve when I don't have a huge bump in front of me to help with my timing. Not sure if that gives any clarity about what book I might need. I do think, though, that one or two lessons will probably do the trick; however, I still wouldn't mind looking over one of Harb's books, since his skiing truly typifies my opinion of perfect technique.
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