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High C counteracting and counterbalance?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
post #2 of 15
Let's see:
Pivot
Pivot
High C...nope, pivot
Pivot...drift...pivot
post #3 of 15
Not so fast there buddy. Rocca is clearly on his new edge before he pivots.
post #4 of 15
How did he get from his position in photo 3 to his position (and direction) in photo 4?? That wasn't a carve.
post #5 of 15
Sorry White - you snuck ahead of me in there. The comment was directed at the FAST man. I'm not disagreeing with you. But one might be tempted to not call Bode's first move a pivot.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
one might be tempted to not call Bode's first move a pivot.
What what tempt one to do that?
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Not so fast there buddy. Rocca is clearly on his new edge before he pivots.
Yes. And is he counteracting and counterbalanced at that point?
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
And,,, also important. Are those edges actually engaged?
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
What what tempt one to do that?
Because there is not a lot of direction change. One could argue that the slight change in direction of the new inside ski from frame 4 to frame 5 is caused by tipping of the inside knee as opposed to foot steering. It's possible that the tail could have followed the path of the tip for this much direction change over this much distance. As far as the outside ski goes, the direction change is even less and could very easily be attributed to just the edge change.
post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Yes. And is he counteracting and counterbalanced at that point?
(mentally converting PMTS semantics to PSIA semantics - let's see if I've got this right:
counteracting = countered
counter balance = angulation
I'm just too lazy to go look it up for confirmation)

Assuming this point = frame 3. Very slight amount of counter and great angulation. I believe that Harald would argue that Rocca has flexed to release as evidenced by the increase in flex in the right leg from frame 2 to frame 3. Although I would call frame 3 to frame 4 a pivot, I can see how Harald might describe this as not done with foot steering - that the change in direction is totally due to increased tipping of the inside leg. He's done that before with similar Rocca tuns.
post #11 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Because there is not a lot of direction change. One could argue that the slight change in direction of the new inside ski from frame 4 to frame 5 is caused by tipping of the inside knee as opposed to foot steering. It's possible that the tail could have followed the path of the tip for this much direction change over this much distance. As far as the outside ski goes, the direction change is even less and could very easily be attributed to just the edge change.
If they do, Rusty,,, suggest they keep observing the montage into images 6 and 7
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
(mentally converting PMTS semantics to PSIA semantics - let's see if I've got this right:
counteracting = countered
counter balance = angulation
I'm just too lazy to go look it up for confirmation)
this is basically correct
post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Assuming this point = frame 3. Very slight amount of counter and great angulation.
Rusty,,, look more closely. Project a line in the direction his skis are pointing, and then one straight forward out of his chest. The torso is actually orientated toward the inside of the arc, which dictates that any forward flexion at the waist (as he is doing) actually creates a state of reverse angulation.

http://ronlemaster.com/images/2005-2...005-sl-1c.html




Quote:
I believe that Harald would argue that Rocca has flexed to release as evidenced by the increase in flex in the right leg from frame 2 to frame 3.
And I would totally agree, as this is a retaction transition designed to allow a pivot


Quote:
Although I would call frame 3 to frame 4 a pivot, I can see how Harald might describe this as not done with foot steering - that the change in direction is totally due to increased tipping of the inside leg. He's done that before with similar Rocca tuns
I would agree with that too,,, it's not foot steering that has powered this pivot as much as it is anticipation. Anticipation being the severly countered position he has right before release that encourages the legs/feet to match the directional orientation of the torso once release has occured.

Bottom line though, regardless of how it happened; a rose by any other name (translation; a pivot is a pivot)
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
I would agree with that too,,, it's not foot steering that has powered this pivot as much as it is anticipation. Anticipation being the severly countered position he has right before release that encourages the legs/feet to match the directional orientation of the torso once release has occured.


Definitely.
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
I would agree with that too,,, it's not foot steering that has powered this pivot as much as it is anticipation. Anticipation being the severly countered position he has right before release that encourages the legs/feet to match the directional orientation of the torso once release has occured.
This discussion seems to be leading to what I described in this post in Max's thread...
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