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Bullet Proof Short Turns - PMTS - Video - Page 30

post #871 of 1165
Max,

Be careful with this idea of "BTE dominance". That is not precise enough language for many people. There are different ways to view that phrase on its own. One person may think outside ski dominance = BTE dominance, and they are correct. But the things you just said are also valid. I think its important to distinguish that you are referring specifically to the transition movements.

Also, be careful about making absolute claims. For example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
BTE dominance also leads to a less active inside foot and an aframe.
The above only makes sense if you are more explicit about what BTE dominance means. And further, if I were making this claim I would add the word "may" before the word "also".

The fact is, if you are outside ski dominant, then ideally most of you edging from the very top of the turn is in fact happening on the BTE. So is it not "dominant"? See what I mean about language? The things you speak of are "tipping" movements, and I agree there are some great advantages to thinking about how you sequence the tipping of inside and outside ski.
post #872 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Be careful with this idea of "BTE dominance". That is not precise enough language for many people.
Good point. I'm referring to the situation where the BTE drives the movements at release and immediately following.
post #873 of 1165
Slow today....come on 900!
post #874 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Here's a nice shot of SkierSynergy. He's a Blue Level PMTS Instructor.

post #875 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Here's a nice shot of SkierSynergy. He's a Blue Level PMTS Instructor.

But Max it's not steep enough!
post #876 of 1165
This pic of SS is more seasonal
http://web.pdx.edu/~petersj/Temp/Tuck.JPG

He's on Carvers. (Recommended accessory)
more

SS is only Blue Level? He's a fantastic skier and superb coach. He showed me essential tips that allows me to ski bumps with aplomb.


Ken
post #877 of 1165
Less than 25 to go
post #878 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublediamond223 View Post
Slow today....come on 900!
huh? Why aim so low!? Straight to 1000, I say!

bump again.
post #879 of 1165
Come on...what happened! we need to reenergize this thread.

PSIA SUCKS!
post #880 of 1165
---Blatant padding on:

I need to weigh in on this important thread.:

It was very interesting until the math wizzes got hold of it!:

---Blatant padding off:

Please return to your regularily scheduled argument
post #881 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j View Post
It was very interesting until the math wizzes got hold of it!:
I've been plowing through the physics stuff. Its interesting but I don't think most of it applies to a human body for a variety of reasons. After I've had a chance to think about it a bit I'll put up a post of what I think is happening in a flex to release movement.
post #882 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I've been plowing through the physics stuff. Its interesting but I don't think most of it applies to a human body for a variety of reasons. After I've had a chance to think about it a bit I'll put up a post of what I think is happening in a flex to release movement.
On the other hand...

Perhaps this is not actually rocket science or brain surgery. Perhaps it's only skiing.

On second thought, perhaps it's only advertising.

With that, only 118 to go.
post #883 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Perhaps this is not actually rocket science or brain surgery. Perhaps it's only skiing.
I would agree that its not rocket science. Are you saying that you believe Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier?
post #884 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I would agree that its not rocket science. Are you saying that you believe Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier?
LOL :
post #885 of 1165
I'll double that : : , and raise you a : !

The envelope please.....(drum roll......)

And the answer is..........




NOT !
post #886 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
NOT !
VSP, are you saying that you believe that learning the Essentials of Skiing is required before Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier Too?
post #887 of 1165
Best post of the thread Max. Hat's off to you.
post #888 of 1165
originally posted by MAX 501-

"Are you saying that you believe Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier?"


I am saying that I absolutely believe this to NOT! be true....

So far, I have seen HH, DR, RK, and CM of PMTS and would agree they are all expert skiers. But none of these awesome skiers trained in PMTS before they became experts. HH didn't even publish until long afterwards. I have yet to see anyone who has trained in the PMTS system exclusively who is an EXPERT... I'm sure there must be someone... but we have not yet seen them. Bring them out, where ever they are! (Sorry MAX, BIG E, Simon, and Borntoski, et al)

HH stated in a thread on realskiers (can't recall which thread) that he has sold thousands of his books. Thats great!

Where are these thousands of EXPERTS? Read the book, do a few exercises, and *poof*, you are an expert? I don't think so...

Hmmm, guess it can't be that accurate a statement then! If it was accurate, then they would be coming out of the woodwork, and the ski teaching world would have been turned upside down some time ago.


Sorry, guys... the verdict is still.....


NOT !
post #889 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
originally posted by MAX 501-


HH stated in a thread on realskiers (can't recall which thread) that he has sold thousands of his books. Thats great!

Where are these thousands of EXPERTS? Read the book, do a few exercises, and *poof*, you are an expert? I don't think so...

Hmmm, guess it can't be that accurate a statement then! If it was accurate, then they would be coming out of the woodwork, and the ski teaching world would have been turned upside down some time ago.

This is funny but in all seriousness who was it that joined NSAA and SIA in hyping skiing as an easy to learn sport? It was PSIA. To the detriment of the skiing public who have endlessly plateaued.

While HH's motto may be "Anyone can Be an Expert Skier", what is PSIA's motto? IS it:

"Anyone Can Be be a Terminal Intemediate"
or
""How to pivot and skid your way from the top of the mountain in 3 easy lessons"

or

"The windshield wiper turn Mastered"

I know I didn't learn to ski from PSIA and I bet you didn't either VSP. You were prob taught by austrians or at least their methodology.
post #890 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
originally posted by MAX 501-

"Are you saying that you believe Anyone Can Be An Expert Skier?"


I am saying that I absolutely believe this to NOT! be true....

So far, I have seen HH, DR, RK, and CM of PMTS and would agree they are all expert skiers. But none of these awesome skiers trained in PMTS before they became experts. HH didn't even publish until long afterwards. I have yet to see anyone who has trained in the PMTS system exclusively who is an EXPERT... I'm sure there must be someone... but we have not yet seen them. Bring them out, where ever they are! (Sorry MAX, BIG E, Simon, and Borntoski, et al)

HH stated in a thread on realskiers (can't recall which thread) that he has sold thousands of his books. Thats great!

Where are these thousands of EXPERTS? Read the book, do a few exercises, and *poof*, you are an expert? I don't think so...

Hmmm, guess it can't be that accurate a statement then! If it was accurate, then they would be coming out of the woodwork, and the ski teaching world would have been turned upside down some time ago.


Sorry, guys... the verdict is still.....


NOT !
Anyone can be an expert skier is a book for the general skiing and non-skiing public. Consider the audience. (almost) Anyone of them can be what they consider to be an "expert" skier, but not what VSP considers an "expert" skier.
post #891 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Anyone can be an expert skier is a book for the general skiing and non-skiing public. Consider the audience. (almost) Anyone of them can be what they consider to be an "expert" skier, but not what VSP considers an "expert" skier.
I think it's time to interject what I wrote in the other thread (plus I'm too lazy to add more...)

Quote:
And much to the chagrin of the hardcore PMTS folks here, I think Harald uses the skills concept everyday, and used it to develop PMTS. Here is his genus in the whole thing. Harald correctly identified that the strongest skill most skiers have is rotary movements. Most skiers correctly identify early on in their skiing careers that getting the skis to "the slow zone" will reduce. Therefore, most skiers are really good at getting their skis there. In fact, I'd say too good. With the advent of shaped skis 10 or more years ago, and the much reduced turning radii that they offered, Harald saw a way to tune out the much maligned rotary and get folks carving very quickly. If we tip the skis enough and don't rotate the feet, they'll "carve" almost every time. Since at that time, carving was considered an expert skill, Bing, bang boom, a teaching methodology is born and you are now an expert skier right off the bat.

But the same genus that got folks carving, also, as many of us have argued and many of us disagreed, limits our functionality. You are removing a plane of rotation from your skiing, at least in an active sense. I'm not willing to go there as I think the same outcomes can be achieved while leaving them in.
So again, I'll say that AO.C.B.A.E.S. is simply marketing hype based upon the public perception that "carving" makes one an expert skier. It doesn't.

Here's a case in point. Let me Ask the PMTS folks here, how many Black qualified instructors are their in the PMTS circle? I don't know the exact number, but from what I've heard on here and on RealS (before I got the boot), not many. If it was REALLY that easy to be an expert skier that ANYONE could do it (I'm speaking of certification here), don't you think that there would be more folks at this level in harald on organization???? hummm?????
post #892 of 1165

Show and tell. Where is your homework young man/lady!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
This is funny but in all seriousness who was it that joined NSAA and SIA in hyping skiing as an easy to learn sport? It was PSIA. To the detriment of the skiing public who have endlessly plateaued.

While HH's motto may be "Anyone can Be an Expert Skier", what is PSIA's motto? IS it:

"Anyone Can Be be a Terminal Intemediate"
or
""How to pivot and skid your way from the top of the mountain in 3 easy lessons"

or

"The windshield wiper turn Mastered"

I know I didn't learn to ski from PSIA and I bet you didn't either VSP. You were prob taught by austrians or at least their methodology.
This is also funny and true but I don't know who taught him to ski. Following the example of most instructors who continue to improve and work on their own skiing, YOU HAVE TO GO ELSEWHERE! OR be a gifted athlete who figures it out on their own and just do it.

BTW, The whole tool box thing makes me gag! It is like putting a prom dress on a dog.

I think the absurd amount of resistance to PMTS is a sin. It is ENVY

If anyone one of you made the effort to stick out your neck and write down a system, progression complex, exercise line, movement pattern overview, methodology, manual, call it whatever; that includes arc to arc skiing as a premise you would be hard pressed to produce anything but PMTS.

Arguments/postings are often hit and run tactics with little preparation. You sneak in when things align in your favor, strike and sit back to admire how knowledgeable you appear to be. I don't include everyone or every post in this but you know what I am saying.

I say put up or shut up.

I challenge you (all forum posters) to prove me wrong by producing a body of work that lays it all out. If you post and claim the impossibility of any method reaching all students then add shame to your envy because that is spin and BS all rolled into one mess.

BTY I use "you" in the above not to identify/accuse any one individual.
post #893 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolter View Post
I think the absurd amount of resistance to PMTS is a sin. It is ENVY....

....I say put up or shut up....

Reisitance to PMTS? It's not the freaking borg. Mr. Bolter, would you care to tell me EXACTLY what PMTS market share is in the US (and world) ski teaching industry? Almost nil.

That's not resistance, it's reality. I suggest joining it....
post #894 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Reisitance to PMTS? It's not the freaking borg. Mr. Bolter, would you care to tell me EXACTLY what PMTS market share is in the US (and world) ski teaching industry? Almost nil.

That's not resistance, it's reality. I suggest joining it....
Good dodge and spin. Lonnie, can I see your manual? Could you please put your skiing manifesto up for review? If you don't have anything to offer, I understand. Mr. J.R. Bolter
I do not think that market share in this case has any connection to the worth of ATS or PMTS or MSR or ARC TECH or CSIA (or anything I know of), as a complete system.
post #895 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
I think it's time to interject what I wrote in the other thread (plus I'm too lazy to add more...)
So again, I'll say that AO.C.B.A.E.S. is simply marketing hype based upon the public perception that "carving" makes one an expert skier. It doesn't.

Here's a case in point. Let me Ask the PMTS folks here, how many Black qualified instructors are their in the PMTS circle? I don't know the exact number, but from what I've heard on here and on RealS (before I got the boot), not many. If it was REALLY that easy to be an expert skier that ANYONE could do it (I'm speaking of certification here), don't you think that there would be more folks at this level in harald on organization???? hummm?????
I really don't know why you participate in these discussions. By your own admission you haven't read any of the books. You have no idea what your talking about regarding PMTS. You continually make sweeping generalizations that are based on what you think you've gleaned from these boards about PMTS.

PMTS is not about carving. That is not it's mission. It is about how to use the changes in ski design to your advantage. It's a about a comprehensive system of skiing that's goal is simply to have the tail follow the tip in turns.

You are also confusing becoming an expert skier with being certified as someone that can teach an expert skier. That's the black level. You must be able to ski and teach that level. To Harald's credit it is difficult to achieve as are all the certifications whether they are for skiing or for boot fitting/alignment.

You have to realize that in a small organization like PMTS you also don't have the politcs. You either can do it or you can't. In PSIA there are so many unqualififed people at every level. Teams, dev teams, examiners, level 3, level 2 etc are all filled with many many people that are not really at that level. I believe Harb saw that all to clearly and determined he didn't want that kind of dillution in his organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Reisitance to PMTS? It's not the freaking borg. Mr. Bolter, would you care to tell me EXACTLY what PMTS market share is in the US (and world) ski teaching industry? Almost nil.

That's not resistance, it's reality. I suggest joining it....
You seem to be hung up on numbers. It really doesn't matter what the market share is. That does not prove a systems effectiveness. Look at PSIA, it's clearly the biggst but obviosuly not the best. It's not working.

The only thing keeping Harb and his system from exploding is money and marketing.

Just keep posting and please do some more of those MA's of yours. The more peoiple that get to see those and read them the better their understanding of the lack of knowledge that PSIA imparts to it's "certified" members.

I would say that for Max to be able to hold his own against examiners and other PSIA gurus has been very very impressive. Go grab a PSIA student and see if they have anywhere close to his understanding of skiing.

I also challenge you and others to go to the Real Skiers site and ask and debate HArb himself. He has offered pardons to the banned. The reason none of you go theri to ask is becasue you can't even begin to discuss this stuff on his level or with hsi undersatnding. He has blown apart every little myth espoused in these two threads on his site already. Go read it.

1000 here we come
post #896 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
So again, I'll say that AO.C.B.A.E.S. is simply marketing hype based upon the public perception that "carving" makes one an expert skier. It doesn't.
Oh please, not this again. Clearly PMTS does a great job of taking a student into all mountain skiing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Here's a case in point. Let me Ask the PMTS folks here, how many Black qualified instructors are their in the PMTS circle? I don't know the exact number, but from what I've heard on here and on RealS (before I got the boot), not many. If it was REALLY that easy to be an expert skier that ANYONE could do it (I'm speaking of certification here), don't you think that there would be more folks at this level in harald on organization???? hummm?????
So you are saying great skiing equals great instruction? Of course not! Its for more difficult to be a black level instructor than it is to be a black level skier.
post #897 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Oh please, not this again. Clearly PMTS does a great job of taking a student into all mountain skiing.
People, my point he is that the TITLE of that book is marketing hype. NOT everyone can be an expert skier. And you certainly cannot become an expert skier by simply reading a book and posting on an internet board. No matter WHAT system you employ, the ONLY way to become an EXPERT skier is to put time in on the hill. And I think that I could effectively argue that by putting in a requisite amount of time on the hill you WILL (assuming you have no physical limitations) become and expert skier no matter what system you employ. I know that I didn't really get any better until I put in my first 100 day season...

Quote:
This message is hidden because volklskier1 is on your ignore list.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
post #898 of 1165
Does anyone here have a body of work to share with this forum? I would be very receptive. If anyone else is curious about this, say so, If not I'll drop it.

Maybe if one is satisfied with the status quo there is no need to write down thoughts, exploring the possibilities or to test/examine comprehension.
post #899 of 1165
I will stipulate that there are few tomes out about skiing... But why? Just to reinvent the wheel again? That has been done to often, and HH's publications are nothing other than another turn of that wheel!

A different look, but nothing startling or new!
post #900 of 1165
Bolter,

Why does it need to be written down? Do we not know good skiing when we see it? If it's written down and then we see someone doing something very well, but contratry to what's written down is it then "bad"?

I think Willy Shakesphere said it best, "A rose by any other name..."

Good skiing is good skiing. I've never said that PMTS doesn't work, or isn't good skiing. I've simply said it's limiting and defines skiing within a very narrow window. THAT'S all. All I'm trying to do here is to open folks eyes to other movements that are VERY useful in skiing. That's is. Why are you guys fighting it?

EDIT: I Sniped VSP for #900!! HA!!!
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