Originally Posted by Bode Klammer
Can you tell me how I can determine when my students are intentionally using controlled brushing and when they are skidding?
Very interesting question Bode. What is a brushed carve? I'll let max give us the official PMTS description, but back to your point...you are asking more generally(not specific to PMTS)...is it possible to have a carve-like turn and have a skidding component at the same time. A PMTS brushed carve does have a skidding component to it. its not an all or nothing thing.
why don't we consult with a veteran Pro:
Originally Posted by vail snopro
ARCING is the process of a ski leaving only its edge mark in the snow, with tail following tip.
CARVING is minimizing excessive skidding.
To give a new definition to the fact the skis are moving sidewards, as well as forward.... I find this amusing as well.... I accept that in many turns, arcing is not possible, or even desireable. I can still define it as carving, provided I have eliminated the excessive (not necessarily ALL) skidding from the turn. Its all a matter of degree and intent.
VSP, I have tried to cover this point several times in the past year and nobody gets it. Maybe you will be able to provide a better explanation of what can distinctly mark the difference between a turn that has a skidding component to it, but can still be considered a form of carving...compared to another turn which also has a skidding component to it, but is just not worthy of being associated with carving. Bode would like to know how he can spot the difference.
Bode, from my perspective, its not easy to tell if you don't know what you're looking for. This is the reason I think many people take the highly simplistic view that if there is any skidding involved, then the turn is not carved in their view. There is a lot more that you need to look at to determine whether a skier is using their sidecut to create a round turn, versus swinging their tails. Both things have a skidding component, but one is not worthy of being associated with carving. IMHO, you can't even look merely at tail displacement. I have seen some people in the past argue that a PMTS brushed carve is when tip and tail are skidding at the same rate side ways. Ok, maybe they are drifting like that and maybe not. But I still claim that tail displacement that creates a bit more of a fanned round turn is still worthy of being called a brushed carve or scarve or whatever the heck you want to call it to feel good about yourself.......IF......it possess the following characteristic:
Does the skier obtain edge engagement and a curved path in the high-C section of the turn? No? Are they swishing their tails past the fall line and then engaging them, creating more of a z line down the hill? Many more things. I hope VSP will expound.
PMTS uses the term brushed carving because they focus on the "movements" that are the same movements used for carving except for with less edge angle(resulting in a bit of skidding). But the movements are the same.
They focus on the movements that will result in fast arcing if you want; or speed control if you want, all with the very same movements, the only difference being the finesse application of how much edge angle you obtain.
Brushed carving or scarving, whatever you want to call it...in my view is one of the more difficult and elegant things to truly master in skiing. Carving a perfect arc on many snow surfaces, is actually easier, as it doesn't require the same level of finesse. Though maintaining a pure arc on other snow surfaces and slopes begins to become extremely technical and difficult.
The movements used to swish the tails are not the same. Those movements do provide speed control but they will never provide carving and their speed control is not smooth. It is speed-up-slow-down-speed-up-slow-down. A scarved or brushed carve turn where you obtain high-C skidding is the ultimate form of speed control because you are able to apply controlled friction during the entire length of the turn, not just the last 1/2 of the turn. With tail swishing, the first half of the turn they are floating in space, pivoting their skis, swinging their tails and hurrying to get past the fall line where they hope to engage their edges and slow the heck down again. That kind of skidding is not worthy of the word "carve".
Carving should be equated to using your sidecuts to make the skis turn as opposed to using your legs to make them turn. Can there be a skidding component in that? Emphatically YES. The questions is, Bode, are your MA skills good enough to tell the difference?