Bullet Proof Short Turns - PMTS - Video - Page 19

Here's the deal: some of us work. It takes time to explain things, but you weren't originally asking, anyway, you were telling the "young pup" that he was doing something wrong without understanding the context of the stills you were linking to. Go watch some shallow sections of GS, there's a tidbit...

Max, I am sure Harald has gone over this with you, but you want to be careful not to take the flexing so far that your transitions become static or you are putting yourself in the backseat (non-advantageous to move into the next turn). I realize this is something you were trying to exaggerrate, but in a few of the shots your body is quite crunched up (hunched over in order to stay forward).

I bet that amount of flexion would help your bump skiing if you were to make your carved turns more quickly (SL-ish). that would give you an idea of how fast you have to flex in order to use those movements in bumps which is undoubtedly a faster paced environment. Maybe a focus on how fast you can flex, versus the amount of flexion you are getting would be a good movement to take note of? In slalom gates however, being over flexed can sometimes be as detrimental as not being flexed at all through the transition.

Later

GREG

Yes Max, lifting the ski off the ground compromises stability, not balance.

If you've checked out the DavidM stuff in the supporter section, I argue intensely that a 0/100 weight distribution from inside to outside ski will optimize outside foot function.

In revisiting that topic, it's become clear that maintaining 0/100 distribution through the turn is not necessary. What is necessary is enough pressure to activate the construction of the vault of the forefoot.

Momentarily lifting the inside ski can do this if you are balanced on the sole of your foot, have completely transferred you weight ( as 0/100 is briefly established), are not using the boot cuff as a support structure, and the weight shift is forward and diagonally onto the new stance foot ( to ball of foot and from LTE to BTE).

[Note that I say complete weight transfer, though others may say complete transfer of the balance point.]

Overflexing at transition can slow the construction of the vault as the location of the balance point will not yet have moved forwards.

He's flexing to release and this does not preclude pressure management at any part of the turn let alone the end of the turn.

Au contraire! In the case of Lonnie, he was chastising a former D-team member on his class handling skills. Regardless of whether or not you agree with PMTS or not I can guarantee you that skiing with a personality like Harb is an exciting and fun experience and I doubt he needs pointers from Lonnie.

Right on. The forces generated in the turn play one of the most significant roles in how the skier can most effectively balance. When in a performance turning situation (ex. slalom) the most effective balance point will be on the outside ski. Slightly lifting the inside ski vertically can do a number of things from tightening the radius to releasing the turn as Max said - as long as the skier remains balanced as that movement happens (take into consideration counter balance/angulation, counter rotation, and fore-aft balance).

Later

GREG

Agreed. I see no fault in that transition at all. Nice looking.

My guess would be both. Over flexing can cause you to hunch forward in order to keep your balance forward on the skis... so it is probably a cause-effect relationship. As I said before, working on the quickness/speed with which you can flex versus how much might make the movement more natural for you. See what Harald thinks... for example when you see him ski he can flex and release the turn on a whim, but does not over-do it.

Later

GREG

What is full extension? I cannot extend my legg completely since my boots are tilted forwards. I also need to save a bit of flexion to be able to extend if necessary. If you extend too far too soon you are blocking yourselfe. Take a look at me, sorry, my fellow countryman in the gates for proper WC technique:

http://www.youcanski.com/photo/palander_lg.jpg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Lm2lrCxuO0 good YouTube link to make it Epic, complete with poor balance caused by lifting the inside ski.

Max, Greg is providing valuable feedback on the "over-doing it". It should happen, not be forced. High speed and the associated high forces should drive the retraction, not you. When you allow the forces to drive the process it will happen faster and more naturally then the slow/forced flexion/extension process I've seen in your video clips.

There's no time for that slow/exaggerated/forced variety of flexion in a race course,,, that's why it disappears when you get in the sticks,,, just no time for it there, ain't gunna happen, and seldom needed to that extreme degree anyway. Check out your WC montages again. You will see that hips do not take a lateral voyage from apex to apex during retraction transitions in slalom, they semi-pendulum, as the knees generally don't flex down to 90 degrees, and very seldom beyond, as you display in your video clips.

I understand you are in the process of trying to learn and embed the retraction movement pattern in your skiing, and as such exaggeration drilling can be a valuable tool. But don't expect that exaggerated movement pattern, and feel it provides, to follow you into a race course. You can get away with it in the freeski environment, but there's just no time for that extra forced flexion and extension movement in a slalom course. In the gates you have to amp up your retraction skills to a higher form. A force driven form. You need to disengage the manual override and let the forces power and dictate the nature of the process. Things happen much faster this way, and much more efficiently. Let the force be with you young Jedi.

Max, would you clarify something for me about PMTS?

Are retraction transitions (and understand, I consider a retraction transition one in which the legs flex as needed to create lightness/float in both feet until after neutral) the bread and butter default transition of the system? How much do you guys use transitions with pressure transfer and maintainance to/on the new outside ski before neutral when freeskiing?

I think what I was saying was, that based on the lesson segment I observed, that former demo team member or not, I didn't think that the teaching style of the teacher would mesh with MY learning style. I'm sure that there are others that would love it, but it didn't seem to be for ME....

With both feet solidly planted in the sand...

Volklskier, I think you are confused!

Au contraire, what???

It is YOUR position that credentials are meaningless, which would be precisely why Lonnie should be able to present his beliefs about HH's class handling skills on their own merits, regardless of his credentials. Yet, you called him out for his credentials!

It is YOUR position that credentials are meaningless, however, you are citing HH's credentials as rational for calling Lonnie on his?????

It gets better! You've clearly explained (yet, again) your belief that PSIA is full of unqualified suck-ups, then cite HH's credentials as a PSIA D-Teamer. Your model basically says he must have been an unqualified suck-up to get there, right?

In any event, I was not strictly referring to your encounter with Lonnie in this thread. More so to the repeated history where you call out others for their experience, credentials, and video. Then when asked to reciprocate you always fall back to them being meaningless.

Many have expressed their satisfaction with the experiences they've had with Harold, I have no reason to believe otherwise. What has that got to do with your dual standard concerning the meaningfulness of credentials?

I've prominently displayed my credentials below. Again, what are yours?

Best,

Chris

You forgot "boring"

Damn Volks you're firing tonite. But back to the discussion of his flexion and crouch.

Isn't his flexion coming at the end of his turn as he prepares to change his edges? In a higher energy turn the forces would possibly need such flexion and an equal degree of extension to keep in control.
His crouch might be something he is working to improve but unless a snapshot has context it isn't telling us much.
A MA is a quest for opinions and it seems Max found a few. I hope some help .

You can flex to absorb pressure, you can also flex to tighten a turn shape. There is a really good pic of Max flexing to release. The great thing about this is that it allows for very early edge engagement. This is very different in sensation and effect than extending. If this cocnept is not understood or as you suggest if you don't look at the context then you can completely misunderstand what is happening as Lonnie did.

VocalSkier- (misspelling is intentional!)

You are what is boring. Your constant stream of put downs, half baked thoughts and innuendoes. What do you actually contribute to this discussion? I'll back up cgeib- if you are so damned! unhappy with PSIA- get out!

Time for you to put up or shut up.

Since you have posted no verifiable credentials, why should your opinion be worth any more than some of the other non-instrs on this site? In fact, many of them have asked (and hopefully received answers to) some interesting questions.

Let's face it- your street cred is 0! And therefore, thats about what your opinion is worth (to me).....

For what it's worth, my non-ski instructor wife with no dog in this fight, (but who has an extensive racing background including racing at USSA nationals 3 years, and for what it's worth a pretty good MA eye) just watched the video. I asked her, "What's this guy doing? Her reply, "He's all scrunched up. He's not exending." I stand by my original statements....

Did you copy and paste that? It was already used by a member of the PSIA mob. But then the rest of your post is just as unoriginal.

I'll say it again reeeaaallll slllooooowwww so you can get it. Harb has verifiable credentials and at this point multiple video clips posted. He also achieved the highest level that PSIA has. I didn't think we needed to listen to a cheap shot on his class handling skills.

As for credentials, they are meaningless here and in the real world. At least that's what Bob Barnes says. You're an examiner? So what. I also have no intention of shutting up although that seems to be the modus operandi around here. Shout down anyone who goes against the little group here. Well I dont mind shouting back and calling BS on much of what goes down here.

As for my opinion, it's not more valuable than anyone elses. The one thing about this thread is that it has proved that many "instructors" have no idea what they are talking about and that a realtively new skier has a better understanding of skiing than they do. I'd say that says a lot about his teacher.

If you're interested in what was being discussed in this thread I suggest that instead you chastise some of your PSIA buddies for being the ones who initially brought a negative tone to it.

Lonnie:

Your wife is handing you a shovel. The frames you pulled are of Max at release. He doesn't have to extend to release. When you extend to start a turn all you are doing is pressure control. You are unweighting the skis. When you unweight guess what happens you get light, you then turn the skis using active rotary movements. This often results in skidding. In PMTS you flex to release and therefore are able to get to new edges quicker then you extend the new stance leg but not until you are actually on those new edges. Thats what ends up giving you those nice angles.

The photos actually show MAx executing pretty well.

>>>More so to the repeated history where you call out others for their experience, credentials, and video. Then when asked to reciprocate you always fall back to them being meaningless.<<<

Chris. lay off the guy, maybe videos of him would be truly meaningless, let him be the judge.

....Ott

Interesting quote .Only opinions from your personal definition of qualified instructors are worthy of respect? Somewhat elitist don't you think? But in the context of technical discussions expertise would matter.
This all seems to boil down to ego and having our opinions reinforced by public opinion.
I think we learn more from diverse opinions and the discussion of those opinions than the status quo.
Vailsnopro you get respect here and post your opinions . Volksskier has given us glimpses of his history and acquaintances and they certainly know who he is
.Why does he get under your skin so easily?

How does any of this pertain to the subject matter of the thread header?

I don't have any Jägermeister, Ott! Guess I'll settle for the Fat Tire that made it back from CO with me

Best,

Chris