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Bullet Proof Short Turns - PMTS - Video - Page 39

post #1141 of 1165
I'm exploring this stuff with Max first hand. Trying to feel the essense of the movements viewing his movements and getting his feedback from what he has learned from his mentors.
Some of it is very foreign to me but the way it adds up to takes advantage of the built in capabilities of modern equipment and they way the movements are built to support high edge angles leads me to believe this is an important system to be aware of.
Nothing is the end all solution to every situation but this stuff does apply to all types of terrain and textures. It builds a go to move that has the ability to deal with the forces generated in skiing maneuvers to achieve a well supported carve and short turn capability on any surface texture on snow
post #1142 of 1165
Well said Gary.

oh wait..did I just add another post to this thread that I thought was dead?
post #1143 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Well said Gary.

oh wait..did I just add another post to this thread that I thought was dead?
Yeah, except for my usual typos.
post #1144 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
I'm exploring this stuff with Max first hand.
We had a fun couple of days. As I think Garry will confirm, there seems to be some differences in how we approach turns. The end result is all good but how we get there differs.
post #1145 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Yeah, it looks horrible when I look down at the skis.
I kind of thinks it looks relaxed. As I said before I would not make such big issue of it but if possible, maybe drop that habbit in the future. The problem with this kind of skiing, filming, coaching, demoing and trying to improve your own skiing like you do is that you keep looking at your skis and body parts to see what is going on. I know its a bad habbit for me as well because when I demo stuff for students and talk about skis I usually look at the skis at the same time. Sort of like pointing in that direction. I have been flamed for looking at my skis in this photo right here:
http://ski.topeverything.com/default...nt&ID=97E356A2

But its sooo cooool to seee all that snow spray !
post #1146 of 1165
one thing that is important to not forget; is about the "joy" of skiing and the utter freedom that is experienced when you forget totally about anything related to ski technique and lose yourself in the moment of bliss. If we get too consumed by our quest for technique, we will miss out the very best part of what skiing is all about.
post #1147 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
one thing that is important to not forget; is about the "joy" of skiing and the utter freedom that is experienced when you forget totally about anything related to ski technique and lose yourself in the moment of bliss. If we get too consumed by our quest for technique, we will miss out the very best part of what skiing is all about.
That's a good point. In my case they go hand in hand, but that's probably because I'm a geek.
post #1148 of 1165
Maybe in your own way they will happen together, Max, but generally those two concepts are mutually exclusive. What BTS is referring to is a right brain concept, and your technique is left brain driven. :

The 'bliss', as BTS puts it, is being able to enjoy without having any conscious input to the process. Until you learn to let the right hemisphere of the brain have its way, you will never understand the true beauty of skiing. That beauty far transcends pure mechanics or technique. (Some might go as far as to say its better than sex!) But then, thats also a right brain activity...
post #1149 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
Until you learn to let the right hemisphere of the brain have its way, you will never understand the true beauty of skiing.
Wow, that's one heck of a statement to make. Suggesting that I don't really 'get' the true meaning of skiing (at least according to VSP).
post #1150 of 1165
Well this is an interesting topic, not to make it sound like I'm harping on Max here. But an interesting topic that MANY on this forum could stand to take a step back and think about more.

I'm as guilty as anyone for obsessing over technique too much. I'm not sure I would categorically say its right vs left brain. I tend to think of things in the abstract with visualizations, etc..even when I'm being analytical...and that is right brain too. ;-)

The main point i want to make and that I think VSP is supporting in his own right brain way ;-) is that regardless of whether you're thinking about the left brain details, or the right brain abstracts...the fact that you're THINKING AT ALL is the problem.

A whole nother level of spiritual skiing is attained when you stop thinking and get into a zen place. You're just there. Present. Automatic. Free.
post #1151 of 1165
And I also want to say further to that, that many discoveries in my own skiing were made when I was in that zen place, rather than in the mental place. Its an important part of development for a truly high level ski "artist".

What I would say to you Max, and others as well...is that if you tend to be more mental and analytical, that is great..and I'm sure you are using those skills as much as possible. However, I would encourage you to stretch out of the mental place, into the zen place. Make it a goal for your skiing development PARTICULARLY if it is not your natural state of being. It will awaken new sensations, new perspectives, new skills and most importantly to me, will awaken certain feelings that are difficult to describe in words.
post #1152 of 1165
MAX-
Please do not paraphrase my words... For to do so changes the meaning immensely. I stated-
"you will never understand the true beauty of skiing."

NOT that you "don't really GET the true MEANING of skiing". What skiing MEANS to each of us is personal. What you GET out of it is up to you! To date, MAX, I have read or seen nothing which encourages me to believe you are using anything but your left brain. I am not saying this as a criticism, but as an observation. As an analytical skier, you will naturally use that component, as I'm sure it has worked for you in so many other endeavors. But this time you must go beyond technique and analysis. You must go beyond feeling and visualization. You need to go a point, where as Yoda once said, "No try, just do". And then one more giant step further. Only you will know what that step will feel like. No one, not HH, not me, not Bode, can tell you what it will feel like. But you WILL know when you have made that step.

But to understand the beauty (maybe I should have said to experience the beauty) takes the ability to go beyond the analytical, as BTS has said. He calls it his 'zen" place. I simply refer to as the zone. Where it all works, and I'm just enjoying the ride. No guiding, no decisions, no analysis. It just is.

Beauty is not quantifiable. Beauty does not have to have meaning. Beauty is not a science. Beauty is an experience. No doubt beauty can be experienced at all levels. But to ascend to the level BTS refers to, it is so far up the ladder, most will never experience it.

Like an Almond Joy- "it's indescribably delicious!"
post #1153 of 1165
Is it about time for a Jaegermeister?

....Ott
post #1154 of 1165
Way past time, Ott! Way past time!
post #1155 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
But to understand the beauty (maybe I should have said to experience the beauty) takes the ability to go beyond the analytical, as BTS has said. He calls it his 'zen" place. I simply refer to as the zone. Where it all works, and I'm just enjoying the ride. No guiding, no decisions, no analysis. It just is.

I don't think its takes a special ability to get into the zone (that happens to be the same word I use to describe it). It just happens on its own. Being in a SL course and feeling like you have plenty of time to make each turn. Tree and bump skiing with the same sensation. Turns that happen automatically. Its really not a big deal and I think most (if not all) advanced skiers feel it from time to time.

All that said, I find that the zone is easier to attain after an hour of warming up with movement work. For me it dials things in right before I set them on autopilot.
post #1156 of 1165
All differences and similarities of terms aside, what you are describing here is not what I was trying to describe earlier. You are describing a state of ultra-focus. In fact it is often more to do with focusing on the RIGHT things, more so than focusing on everything at the same time...nor is it focusing on nothing either.

What I have been trying to talk about is the opposite extreme.....letting go of focus. Letting go of so much attention. Just skiing with about as much thought as a bird has that is soaring around the sky. You may or may not ski as perfectly this way, but it doesn't matter because you are in bliss. Its not about warming up into "the zone" by your definition where you are executing as close to perfection as you are capable. It is about letting go completely of this focus and skiing by instinct. Its possible this may be a foreign concept to some people if they don't yet posess the skills to ski very well in this state of mind.

At any rate, the only reason I mentioned it was because you and others have commented about how you're looking at your feet a lot. I believe this is because you are consumed with executing perfect turns. That can be very good for your development, but don't lose sight of the spiritual side of skiing which has nothing at all to do whatsoever with ski technique perfection.

You know what, when I was 12 I went skiing for the very first time. It took me half a day with no lessons and no instructor whatsoever to figure out I needed someone to show me how to ride the friggin poma lift, let alone make a "snowplow" that my friends had told me I should make sure to do. But in the afternoon, I figured it out, just in time to join a lesson. I then spent most of the lesson flying down the green run in huge GS sized snowplow turns, tongue hanging out, instructor yelling at me to slow down. You know what, I had an epiphany that day and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with technique. It was a spiritual experience that transformed my life. It was about letting go and just SKIING!
post #1157 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
You know what, I had an epiphany that day and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with technique. It was a spiritual experience that transformed my life. It was about letting go and just SKIING!
Sex was mentioned earlier but what about love? The ultimate skiing experiance is like being in love. And what is better than a life long love affair.
post #1158 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
I then spent most of the lesson flying down the green run in huge GS sized snowplow turns, tongue hanging out, instructor yelling at me to slow down. You know what, I had an epiphany that day and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with technique. It was a spiritual experience that transformed my life!
I am going to join Real Skiers.....and post this.
post #1159 of 1165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
At any rate, the only reason I mentioned it was because you and others have commented about how you're looking at your feet a lot. I believe this is because you are consumed with executing perfect turns.
Many posts ago I mentioned that the looking at the feet thing was something I only do when working a specific movement that I want to see the results of, for example, the foot pullback. TDK mentioned that he does it when he is doing a demo to make sure he's actually doing it. I don't know about TDK but the last thing I do is look at my feet when free skiing or when tackling a race course.

VSP described being in the zone this way:

Quote:
Where it all works, and I'm just enjoying the ride. No guiding, no decisions, no analysis. It just is.
And I agree that skiing that way is wonderful. Sounds like you are talking about something else but I don't understand what it is.
post #1160 of 1165
Quote:
And I agree that skiing that way is wonderful. Sounds like you are talking about something else but I don't understand what it is.


I think he's talking about it being fun.
post #1161 of 1165
Sometimes you just have to put down the manual and let it go............
post #1162 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
but the last thing I do is look at my feet when free skiing


Quote:
Sounds like you are talking about something else but I don't understand what it is.
I hear you. The thing I'm trying to describe with words, is not easy to describe with words. It is a spiritual thing. It is what makes skiing a literal art form to me, not merely an athletic event.
post #1163 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Many posts ago I mentioned that the looking at the feet thing was something I only do when working a specific movement that I want to see the results of, for example, the foot pullback. TDK mentioned that he does it when he is doing a demo to make sure he's actually doing it. I don't know about TDK but the last thing I do is look at my feet when free skiing or when tackling a race course.
With my youngest brother we can eather do booring/exiting drills all day and tape demos for reference on the bunny hill or we can hike up a mountain and ski down the back side. At some point we might have a quick discussion of strategy but mostly that is only for safety. Other than that, its just pure skiing. One more thing, at tru expert level you dont have to look ahead. The only thing you need to do is to consentrate on what is going on at that exact moment. Im not talking WC DH skiing here. Just all mountain skiing. Bumps, trees, powder etc. That is what PMTS is providing you, a solid foundation.

BTW, I dont need to be looking down at my skis, thats what I have the camera for :
http://ski.topeverything.com/default...nt&ID=BFDB50AC
post #1164 of 1165
The more you've thought and trained in the past, the more amazing becomes the experience of not thinking in the present.

Great skiers know a sense of freedom and oneness with the mountain average skiers never will.
post #1165 of 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
The more you've thought and trained in the past, the more amazing becomes the experience of not thinking in the present.

Great skiers know a sense of freedom and oneness with the mountain average skiers never will.
Well said.
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