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MA request: SL - Page 2

post #31 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...I think what you're doing is just fine. Now put your turns to the acid test, because this is all just style points, which what the feedback you're hearing consists of. Go run some gates and see how it all works...

I respectfully disagree that everything here is style points. Moving forward in the transition and pressuring the tips will allow for a more efficient energy transmission to the skis, leading to a shorter radius turn, needing a shorter impulse, longer time gliding in the fall line and faster times.
post #32 of 42

Fine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
I respectfully disagree that everything here is style points. Moving forward in the transition and pressuring the tips will allow for a more efficient energy transmission to the skis, leading to a shorter radius turn, needing a shorter impulse, longer time gliding in the fall line and faster times.
...so go do what you're doing now, in a course, and then do the new and improved version, and see what's faster. Otherwise, it's like figure skating, which Scott Hamilton admitted is "just somebody's opinion"...I see this all the time in all levels of ski racing. There's a common belief that x, or y, or z is the only way to do business. Then somebody comes along and does it faster, and suddently that's the way to do business.

Everybody laughed at Bode until he started winning, then the Austrians couldn't get enough of watching tons of Bode video to try to figure out why he was beating the snot out of them. Jens Byggmark is a perfect example. Go back and take a look at the 2006 Beaver Creek Men's SL. You'll see widely differing approaches, which is what Ron LeMaster talked about in his pitch at the Boulder Center for Sports Medecine last fall. Byggmark's skiing looks like it makes no sense at all...but he's fast. A friend of mine who is a 40 point SL racer noted a trend in SL that Bode started and Byggmark is carrying on: Byggmark takes incredible risks, often gets out of balance, almost goes down on every gate...but always points 'em down. Sometimes he makes a smooth transition and pressures the tips early, sometimes he doesn't. When he stands up, he wins. Otherwise, he goes out. Isn't that what racing...and skiing...is all about?
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...so go do what you're doing now, in a course, and then do the new and improved version, and see what's faster. Otherwise, it's like figure skating, which Scott Hamilton admitted is "just somebody's opinion"...I see this all the time in all levels of ski racing. There's a common belief that x, or y, or z is the only way to do business. Then somebody comes along and does it faster, and suddently that's the way to do business.

Everybody laughed at Bode until he started winning, then the Austrians couldn't get enough of watching tons of Bode video to try to figure out why he was beating the snot out of them. Jens Byggmark is a perfect example. Go back and take a look at the 2006 Beaver Creek Men's SL. You'll see widely differing approaches, which is what Ron LeMaster talked about in his pitch at the Boulder Center for Sports Medecine last fall. Byggmark's skiing looks like it makes no sense at all...but he's fast. A friend of mine who is a 40 point SL racer noted a trend in SL that Bode started and Byggmark is carrying on: Byggmark takes incredible risks, often gets out of balance, almost goes down on every gate...but always points 'em down. Sometimes he makes a smooth transition and pressures the tips early, sometimes he doesn't. When he stands up, he wins. Otherwise, he goes out. Isn't that what racing...and skiing...is all about?


You do make a point. When it's race time, all that matters is getting down the hill. But if you watch any of these guys freeski, they're all starting turns on the fronts of their boots with early pressure. The key is to build up a set of tools in freeskiing so that you don't have to think about them in the course. And yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. But I don't really see how you get better by continuing to do what you're doing. Sure, you can train line, balance, agility, etc. but you need those technical tools.

Also worth noting is that when the risk-taking skiers like Bode and Byggmark DON'T make a mistake, the mechanics are similar to those of the consistency skiers. If they could take the risks they're taking without messing up a gate or two, they'd make some serious gains, as shown by Berthod in Adelboden.
post #34 of 42
Nice skiing tdk6! I like the dynamic body position.

I agree with KB that your hips arn't over your feet and you bend at the waist to be balanced. The same movements from a taller stance will help you allign better and also allow you to engage your inside ski simotaniousally with the outside ski.

You are very outside ski oriented, like I am and my focus on sl turns has been initiating the new turn with my old outside ski and following through with it. My verbal cue is "inside to inside", making me more patient in the transition and strenghting my inside half and directional change movements.
Hope this makes sence to you.

RW
post #35 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron White View Post
Nice skiing tdk6! I like the dynamic body position.

I agree with KB that your hips arn't over your feet and you bend at the waist to be balanced. The same movements from a taller stance will help you allign better and also allow you to engage your inside ski simotaniousally with the outside ski.

You are very outside ski oriented, like I am and my focus on sl turns has been initiating the new turn with my old outside ski and following through with it. My verbal cue is "inside to inside", making me more patient in the transition and strenghting my inside half and directional change movements.
Hope this makes sence to you.

RW
Are you saying I bend my body forwards or sideways too much?

I agree that patiens in the transition is a good thing but I was kind of trying to be quick and to flex through the transition. You are also saying that my skiing is very outside ski oriented. Others have said my skiing here is too much two footed. Any comment anyone?
post #36 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...I think what you're doing is just fine. Now put your turns to the acid test, because this is all just style points, which what the feedback you're hearing consists of. Go run some gates and see how it all works...
Thanks SR55. My skiing works much better this year than the year before. I have shaved off 1-2 seconds on a 20 second run. I stay lower and try to carve more aggressively by angulating and really getting my skis on their edges early on. I have been able to do this by focusing on using my hipps more efficiently. Before I used to ski arround the gates and cross block, now I try to ski inside the gate and clear the gate with my outside arm.
post #37 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Another thing about a race track is that the forward balance needed to get the tips working on the polished ice can lead to unpleasantness when you hit some crap.

I think it's a case of a little too much cure. Like a motorcycle rider who is trying to lean his bike over to touch his pegs down instead of just trying to turn and taking the lean that comes with it.

You succeeded too well; you let your skis go out from under you to the side while your body went straight down the fall line, and the tips got too far from your body because that is what you were trying to do! With the tips too far from your weight you sensed the lack of grip, tipped them more and used the inside ski to help out. It all started with a deliberate attempt to get your skis to go out without your cm, too good a cross-under with not enough weight near the tips for good initiation of the next turn.

Edit: I don't mean to sound harsh; I'm just trying to be exact (I'm an engineer). I think it's pretty good skiing.
Hey, Im an engineer as well so no sweat. Thanks for your analysis. I think you pritty much nailed it but Im not handing out any revards so you just have to settle for my applauds. I succeeded to well really says it all since that is what demos are like. You demo something and when you overempahsize it to make it visual you get distortion and flaws in other areas. I was aiming for bringing my CM as smoothly and as straight as possible down the hill while still making carved turns.

I also like your comment that pressuring the ski tips is not nesessarily allways the best thing to do. IMO worn race tracks are very dangerous sometimes and even pressure on skis are better than trying to get the ski tips to grabb. I swiched to turnier skis in order to be able to kill the blue ice beneath my boots when the going gets ruff. Turned out to work very much in my favor.
post #38 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
You do make a point. When it's race time, all that matters is getting down the hill. But if you watch any of these guys freeski, they're all starting turns on the fronts of their boots with early pressure. The key is to build up a set of tools in freeskiing so that you don't have to think about them in the course. And yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. But I don't really see how you get better by continuing to do what you're doing. Sure, you can train line, balance, agility, etc. but you need those technical tools.

Also worth noting is that when the risk-taking skiers like Bode and Byggmark DON'T make a mistake, the mechanics are similar to those of the consistency skiers. If they could take the risks they're taking without messing up a gate or two, they'd make some serious gains, as shown by Berthod in Adelboden.
I agree perfectly with you on this post. But its strange that you guys dont think I pressure the front of my boots. I have snuggly buckled Nordica Dobermans and no ramp which decreases my forward lean and ancle flex.
post #39 of 42
tdk6,

Quote:
Are you saying I bend my body forwards or sideways too much?
I am saying that you look like you are bending forward from the waist. I would like to see your hips forward more. The last few seconds of the vid. is where you can best see the body position.

Quote:
Quote:
I agree that patiens in the transition is a good thing but I was kind of trying to be quick and to flex through the transition.

That is fine, it looked a little rushed and not simotanious. Make your directional change move from the new inside ski (and body half)

[quote]
Quote:
You are also saying that my skiing is very outside ski oriented.
Your first move in the transition is to extend to your new outside ski and then almost pick-up and re-engage your inside ski. This causes the "SL" A-frame evedent during transition. Some of the turns look really simotanious and a much cleaner turn is the result.


I really like your turns, don't get me wrong. These are some fine points I picked up on.

RW
post #40 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
I agree perfectly with you on this post. But its strange that you guys dont think I pressure the front of my boots. I have snuggly buckled Nordica Dobermans and no ramp which decreases my forward lean and ancle flex.
You're not back by any means. You're just not starting your skis with the shovels as much as you could, which is done by MOVING forward and down the fall line when transitioning.

This is kinda cool, speaking of Bode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpHLbwf7JKw

There's a good explanation of fore-aft balance in the clip.
post #41 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
In the good old days I used to have a-frame (not a crime back then) but I worked that away during the last two years. Now it seems to have come back. Im still pleased with the overall improvement in my skiing but somehow there has been so many issues that parallel shafts have been over looked. Gotto do something about that next year.
You are still way under-canted. Particularly on your left foot. Watch how far the knee has to travel across the ski before edge engagement - very clear in the last left footed outside ski sequence.

Check for pronation first - a good orthotic (footbed) will be the first step, then the final alignment via canting of the boot sole. Both feet need help - you'll be amazed at how much more accuracy you'll have - and how much better your skis respond - edge hold on steeper terrain will become a new skill for you.
post #42 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whygimf View Post
You are still way under-canted. Particularly on your left foot. Watch how far the knee has to travel across the ski before edge engagement - very clear in the last left footed outside ski sequence.

Check for pronation first - a good orthotic (footbed) will be the first step, then the final alignment via canting of the boot sole. Both feet need help - you'll be amazed at how much more accuracy you'll have - and how much better your skis respond - edge hold on steeper terrain will become a new skill for you.
Should I put some duct tape under my left boots BTE? Only the left foot, not also the right? How about the canting adjustments on my Nordica Doberman boots?
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