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Advice on mounting bindings in duck-footed stance.

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'm one of the folks who has knees that flex to the inside. I wanted to try an abducted stance but I can't find any cheap Fischer boots. I've decided to take an old pair of Volant PowerKarves and mount some bindings in a duck footed stance to see if I like the way they ski. I'm a 59 years old and I'm going to intentionally jump off anything or anything. I don't think I put a lot of stress on my bindings. How much distance do I need to leave between the old binding holes and the new mounting holes? Should the holes be threaded with a tap or will the screws self-thread? Can I reuse the old screws? Any general advice on re-drilling and remounting? Is this a crazy idea?
post #2 of 20
Leave at least 5mm of material between new and old holes.
Plug the old holes.
You will need to tap the holes on an older volant.
You can (and should) re-use the old screws.
This IS a bad idea, but what the heck, it'll be cool to try.
post #3 of 20
Pictures.
post #4 of 20
I have this problem too - but mostly with the right leg!

I suggest you visit a podiatrist and get them to make some custom footbeds for you that let your feet sit in a neutral position. Mine tip my left foot out by 3.5 degrees and my right foot out by 7 degrees. It sure feels weird at first and my right foot can ge a little sore along the outside. But skiing is a much pleasanter experience and I no longer get a sharp pain down the outside of my right shin.

If you have a bath with an overflow try flexing your leg with your foot flat on the end of the bath. Then do the same with the overflow under the ball of your big toe. Does it make a difference to your knees?
post #5 of 20
Note, in mounting a binding in this manner will not let it torque correctly.
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Note, in mounting a binding in this manner will not let it torque correctly.
What does that mean? If the toe/heel are lined up with each other and mounted as few degrees off the axis of the ski, it seems like they still would function as designed.

SteveT, here's a thread on this topic http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=47902.
Mtlion reports his friend's knee pain disappeared.

You can ski duck footed on telemark skis. Just put your skis on the wrong feet.
post #7 of 20
I would try to minimize the abductive force on the foot before I tried to mount the ski off center. The easiest way to do that is through the use of a well made footbed utilizing a forefoot varus posting. I've found that around 85% of skiers will respond to this posting.
post #8 of 20
Steve,
An easier way to mess around this is to get your hands on an older pair of Salomon bindings (S900 series or older) or their Comp bindings. These have toe wing adjustments on both sides so all you need to do is tighten one side all the way and loosen the other side all the way to make a noticible change in your boot's alignment over the ski. I've tried this on powder skis and it works pretty well. I have also torque tested skis set up this way and they test out fine so IMO there isn't really that much added risk...
Have fun.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyr View Post
Steve,
An easier way to mess around this is to get your hands on an older pair of Salomon bindings (S900 series or older) or their Comp bindings. These have toe wing adjustments on both sides so all you need to do is tighten one side all the way and loosen the other side all the way to make a noticible change in your boot's alignment over the ski. I've tried this on powder skis and it works pretty well. I have also torque tested skis set up this way and they test out fine so IMO there isn't really that much added risk...
Have fun.
I could swear there was only one screw that adjusted both wings simultaneously and equally?
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
I could swear there was only one screw that adjusted both wings simultaneously and equally?
Note that he said older Salomon bindings. The s900 (not s912,914) and current derivative s916/920 have independent toe wing adjustment.
post #11 of 20
You are correct Voltron

post #12 of 20
5mm between holes = all good

I've mounted my wifes skis this way (heli guide and this is a work ski) knee pain went away the next day. now she is in nordica aggressor boots and life is still good.

I reversed the spacers on the mounting jig to duck her stance and worked great.


good idea on the wing adjustment, can work well I think too.
post #13 of 20
This is a bit late but I've found a link that might be useful:

http://www.dynastat.freeserve.co.uk/prod01.htm

The medic-speak goes over my head but look at the two pictures. Does the top one look familliar?

The device on the floor is for measuring how much your footbed should be angled. Get this right and your boots will work fine in a straight line.
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Yep, that's like me.
I can (1)stand with my feet together and my knees are about two inches apart. The weight seems more toward the outside edges of my feet. If I do a deep knee bend from that position the knees quickly come together and pressure each other all the way down.
(2)I can put a wedge under the inside of each foot and I stand even more bow legged with my legs straight but they will flex straight forward or
(3)I can point my toes out a little, the knees are still two inches apart but the knees flex forward.
I'm going to sacrifice a pair of old skis and see if toes out works for me.
post #15 of 20
FWIW, I think this is a bad idea for biomechanical reasons, whatever the issues concerning mounting ans ski performance.

What you're planning to do may keep your knees apart, but if anything it'll increase the sheer on your medial knee compartment. This is one reason that duck-stanced distance runners tend to have knee problems.

I'd suggest instead that you work on realigning your ankle and knee, with orthotics at the minimum, possibly a brace.
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
FWIW, I think this is a bad idea for biomechanical reasons, whatever the issues concerning mounting ans ski performance.

What you're planning to do may keep your knees apart, but if anything it'll increase the sheer on your medial knee compartment. This is one reason that duck-stanced distance runners tend to have knee problems.

I'd suggest instead that you work on realigning your ankle and knee, with orthotics at the minimum, possibly a brace.
I guess I should follow the advice of several Bears who sound like you know what you're talking about and forget moving the bindings and continue to look for some cheap Fischer boots. Thanks for the advice.
post #17 of 20
I have a very duck-footed stance because of the way my shin bones are shaped. Aside from setting the dual pivot thingy on my Tecnicas as suggested on their web site, more for the cuff cant, honestly, I haven't done anything about it for skiing purposes.

But on my racing bike I use a footbed with a wedge under the forefoot, so that the medial part of my forefoot is higher than the lateral part. This has the effect of making me turn my foot in to make the bottom of the shoe flat to the pedal. As a result, I don't have to turn my knee in, and it travels in a more natural path.

I've heard that binding canting used to be a fairly common procedure. It seems like canting your binding would allow you to continue to point your toe directly down the axis of the ski, while eliminating some of the turnout of your foot relative to your knee.

I'd still go ahead and try turning out the binding. If you ski it and it hurts more, then you know it was a bad idea for you. But it could work too.
post #18 of 20

skip it and get soma boots

why play around with the bindings and risk what may turn out to be a weak mount? get soma boots, they work, PERIOD! it's better, less tireing, stronger, more natural, more control= esp. applying extra tip pressure, wet snow from snow guns will not even effect your balance or toss you forward, you'll be standing upright while others are laying on the ground. trust me they work and are long overdue. no more shimming, foam, shaving, yada yada yada......enough! all it was is the stance was wrong. watch e-bay for cheapies. my mx9's were comfy from day 1(like a pair of nikes!) while they still got awards for performance.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
why play around with the bindings and risk what may turn out to be a weak mount?.
1) with a mount you can control the amount of offset

2) the offset boots might not fit you as well as other boot.

3) off cent boots might not go to the right size (fisher is 23, my wife needs 22)

I like the idea of the offset boot, but it is not the be all and end all of boots, You still need to fine tune the fit for each person
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by the woo woo kid View Post
why play around with the bindings and risk what may turn out to be a weak mount? get soma boots, they work, PERIOD! it's better, less tireing, stronger, more natural, more control= esp. applying extra tip pressure, wet snow from snow guns will not even effect your balance or toss you forward, you'll be standing upright while others are laying on the ground. trust me they work and are long overdue. no more shimming, foam, shaving, yada yada yada......enough! all it was is the stance was wrong. watch e-bay for cheapies. my mx9's were comfy from day 1(like a pair of nikes!) while they still got awards for performance.

I'm glad that your experience with "off-set' boots was the key to unlock your personal potential. Just remember, everyone is built different. Your experience is a personal/individual journey. Others will not respond as well as you. Don't lead others astray with blanket statements.
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