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Anton Gliders - Page 2

post #31 of 54
Gotcher.
post #32 of 54
Want to test the NEW Anton Gliders at Killington January 8/9?

Jay Frischman of Anton Gliders has several new designs of the Anton Gliders he wants people to try. He says he can make it up to Killington Monday or Tuesday Jan. 8 or 9. Everyone is on their own for passes/tickets...etc....

Who wants to try these and publish reviews on ExoticSkis.com and EpicSki.com? I will probably bring a camcorder to document how these REALLY work with various skiers.

Jay has 10 skis in his demo fleet:

1 Advance 5.5 (people who have never ever skied)
3 Carbon FS 38 waist designed for beginner terrain and teaching people to carve
3 Carbon GT 52 waist for beginner to intermediate terrain(8 meter radius)
3 Carbon EX 64 waist for all mountain Piste(11 meter radius)


I will try to coordinate with Jay and anyone who can come.
I will make a dedicated review forum over at ExoticSkis for people to dump their experiences.

PM me if you can make it...he would like a body count.
These will be odd...but probably interesting and make you rethink ski designs (always good once in a while)...
post #33 of 54
I got to ski all the new Anton Gliders yesterday in miserable conditions at Killington. Here's the summary below:

Full review with a handful of photos is at:
http://www.exoticskis.com/forum/defa...x?g=posts&t=38

Tiny YouTube vid of the Anton Gliders in action:
(we could only see at the bottom on the flats...not really good for video of these skis doing their thing...but it's the best we could get yesterday):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikdisnLJfJw


My first reaction upon seeing them was "Oh boy, another Franken-ski designed by a machinist with too much time on his hands." After seeing many skis come and go with various gimmick doo dads like Marker SelectControl, extensible extra edges, fins, "the Claw", Salomon PowerLink, K2 Piezo-electric blinkie dots, Nordica X-balance, NavaSki binding system, Burt and Spademan bindings, plates of every shape and configuration...etc...etc., I was very skeptical. I see tons of really scary designs while keeping the ExoticSkis.com list of 175+ ski builders up to date, and these fell right into the "please not again..." category. Jay Frischman of Anton Gliders sent an email and said "Where and when can we meet up to show you the new production models?" I carefully reviewed the Anton Gliders website, watched the videos and said "OK, I try them."

These are NOT cobbed-together, Rube Goldberg skis. These are extremely finely machined and meticulously assembled "ski devices" where every component is carefully designed and fitted with highest-quality aerospace elastomers, stainless fasteners, CNC-machined mounting inserts in the ski body, high-quality aircraft-grade aluminum chassis with high-precision elastomer position adjusters, highest-quality leaf spring technology borrowed from premium bow hunting engineering, anodized finishes all combined with custom carbon/wood core skis made by Pete Wagner at Wagner Custom Skis in Colorado. (entry level model skis not made by Wagner). They are really, really cool to hold and examine up close. A real high-tech work of art. Tech junkies will drool over them, but at $4,400 per pair...you better be ready to pay a small fortune for them.



Bottom line - these skis really demand firm, consistent surfaces to work their magic. The beginner ski and the ultra-narrow (38mm waist like a nordic skating ski) ski more so than the GT or EX models. If you put a beginner on these skis, make sure they conditions are a perfect combination of slope surface and pitch. Othewise, they might sink a little and not give the new skier a fun ride. If the conditions are optimal, a beginner would find themselves definitely in control much more than conventional skis.

I skied all the models.

The Advance 5.5 beginner ski was tiny at 138cm with 55mm waist, but it never washed out, steered right where you wanted to go with very little effort, never felt squirrely and gave great feedback through your feet. Ski it like a beginner and it works as advertised. Very cool little ski. I think a never-ever skier might just have a really good day on these things and not give up after an hour of struggling and becoming uncomfortable like they so often do with typical skis.

The Carbon FS is a really radical ski shape being only 38mm underfoot (looks like a nordic skating ski in the middle) so your boot soles overhang the ski body, then the ski flares out to its "normal" tip and tail taper over its 138cm length. This ski demands a non-sinkable, firm surface. Push down in anything remotely soft, and it will sink down, slowing you waaaayyy down. Turns on firm surfaces are super easy and require you to forget your normal technique and merely unweight a pinkie toe on the outside ski to immediately set both skis into a turn. No roll of the ankle, no roll of the knee, no shift of the hips, no shift of your shoulders, no shift of your hands...just tip your toe or merely put a pound more weight on one ski than the other to start a turn. Cool, but very sensitive to snow surface conditions. They are quick little buggers, but totally controlled. No feeling of being on "railed" skis or locked into a carve. They will smear and smarve just fine at any time in your turn sequence, start, middle or end. Just watch your surface if it's at all variable. Perfectly stable at speed and extremely obedient and responsive. Just depth-sensitive. A beginner on a firm packed surface could learn carving in no time flat.

The Carbon GT model was a different animal at 52mm underfoot at 145cm length. This is what I would call a very friendly "extreme carver". You could put your Grandmother on these and she would love them on the groomers. No effort, no sinking underfoot (still keep to the groomed slopes folks), just turn, turn, turn on demand. No speed requirements or limitations. Great grip, great turns. Don't be fooled, however. Grandma might like them just fine, but a rowdy frontside skier will cut some great arcs with these things simply by turning up the tension adjustments. Even the experts will find the GTs really really FUN. You can run these at any speed you might use a "normal" ski. Stable, responsive, unlimited edging power (depending on your tension settings) and a blast to carve tracks with.

The Carbon EX is the high-performance, widest ski in the Anton Glider lineup. I tried them first with the elastomer settings set on 10 out of of 20 clicks (max). They turned extremely easy, held and edge and ripped nice turns much better than I thought they would, and the initial "better be a little careful on these things at speed" hesitation disappeared immediately. The front end seemed to wash a little, but a very slight weigh bias to the rear and zoom...they hooked up and rocketed into the next turn like Richochet Rabbit. My co-tester Jeff and I were fairly impressed when we got the tails to hook up on the sketchy test surfaces we had. Jay Frischman then had us crank the elastomer adjusters up. We maxed-them out at 20 clicks (see "Flex Adjustments" below) and took another run. We both found the EX had suddenly changed its personality into a serious GS-like race carver that just ripped. We both were laughing and grinning at the end of the run and immediately had to get another one in using these settings. Very cool ride. Complete personality change. These are the first "adjustable flex" skis I have every tried that really change when you twiddle the adjusters! Finally. It only took 20 years for someone to pull it off. We decided to take a bumpier trail down to swap skis, and the "full race" settings made the EX Gliders feel like 210cm GS skis. Tough as nails in the bumps. We backed the settings from 20 down to zero and continued down the trail, this time with compliant, freindly, perky, soft-flexing fun skis instead of unforginving GS skis. Very cool. I would own a pair of these if they didn't cost $4,400. Really cool toys for expert carvers, but adjustable so anyone could really enjoy them. I think the world has its first "real" adjustable ski.



My reservations about the Anton Gliders are:

- Very expensive Limited Edition models.
- Extremely surface-sensitive beginner models (great if the snow is perfect, but it may spoil their fun if they find a soft spot unexpectedly)
- Initial reaction by many industry veterans = "Oh no, not another Franken-ski." (before they even try them).
- Not sure how beginners trained with Anton Gliders might transition to "normal skis" if they ever wanted to.

I do think this concept is sound and Anton Gliders mechanism may be the first step toward the next-generation binding-ski integration. The first attempts by various other manufacturers have not lived up to their hype yet. This system is truly adjustable and has a profound effect upon the ski's behavior and works as advertised. There have been plenty of great inventions out there that never made it past inital production stage due to fickle consumers and market pressures. The Anton Gliders may fade into history, or make history. It's up to the company to see what they can do with their invention. Definitely cool. I don't know if they can or should compete for market share, or instead try to bring their patented technology into the mainstream through the major manufacturers. Hard to say. In any case. American ingenuity strikes again (at a price)!

If anyone gets to try the new generation Anton Gliders...post your experiences...the new ones are pretty odd, but they work very cool.
post #34 of 54
Awesome looking skis.....I would love to have a pair. But at $4k a supercharger for the Hummer might be more fun.
post #35 of 54
Those springs/arms look a bit similar to Rossi's Mutix system. Wonder who had the idea first...?
post #36 of 54

That's nothing...

...you want to see some real High Weirdness? Here, try this:

http://www.raxski.com/
post #37 of 54
Yes !

I have seen the RaxSki....definitely....ah...."different".

Dangerous looking corn snow tool.
I dunno if I want to try them or not.....(conflicted).
...OK, I probably would try them....I ain't skeeerd...
post #38 of 54

Rax ski collection

Die

Die Masse der trägen Big Mountain Skis wird immer erdrückender,die Schaufeln der Carving Skis können schon das ganze Gesicht verdecken:

--- Versuch eines Befreiungsschlags.

Zuerst muß man etwas in der Hand haben, was mindestens so gut funktioniert.
Versuchen wir es mit dem da auf dem Foto!

Schon mal so was gesehen?
Ich auch nicht, bis vor 1,5 Jahren.
Es war ein Sakrileg, einen Ski ohne durchgehende
glatte Unterseite zu bauen.

Im Gelände aber spürst du die wohltuende Wirkung
der vertikalen Alu-Platten („Finnen“)- sie haften besser als Kanten.

Wenn du im Tiefschnee mit angehobenen Skispitzen fährst
und deine Füße links oder rechts drehst, so pivotiert der Ski
auf hinteren Finnen und du fährst saubere Bögen ohne zu rutschen.
Nur auf der Piste mußt du die Finnen bewußt in den Schnee drücken
oder aber du wedelst und carvst wie auf einem normalen Ski.

Die Lage der Finnen hinter dem Skischuh erzeugt Kraftmomente,
die einen schräggestellten Ski in die momentane Fahrtrichtung
automatisch zurückdrehen. Also kein Verkanten/Verschneiden
wie beim Carving Ski, nur automatische Parallelstellung der Skier.

Der Ski auf dem Bild ist optimiert für weichen Schnee, die Finnen sind „stromlinienförmig“ nach hinten gerichtet.
Bei Modellen für harten Schnee ist die erste schneidende Finnen-Kante sehr steil und kurz.
Der kurze hintere Aufbau und die Skilänge unter 1 m bei anderen Modellen
hilft in extrem steilem Gelände.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab View Post
Das ist viele frikkin' radical, dude
Hast mi durchschaut, Crab !

Born in Austria a year ago



I’ve got something no other ski has: direction and speed control located behind your boots.

You immediately feel an unknown grip of metal fins when skiing off-piste.

Twisting the feet left or right makes skis pivot on their fins and draw a clean curve in the snow.
Just on hard snow surface you have to care that fins do really carve and occasionally „shoot“ feet and skis forward to put a pressure on fins and to execute a powerful „jet turn on the fins“.
Otherwise you are free to turn as you are used to (carve and skidded turns on ski edges).

The position of fins behind ski boots produces momentum that
forces both skis to automatically stabilize in the driving direction and therefore parallel to each other. Unlike shaped carver this ski offers no handle
at ski tip section to get skewed by bumpy terrain.

The ski above has streamlined fins for high speed in soft snow.
Models for hard snow favor short upright edge of the front fins.
Extremely short ski tail allows smooth turns „on the fins“ in very steep terrain.

Born in Austria a year ago



I’ve got something no other ski has: direction and speed control located behind your boots.

You immediately feel an unknown grip of metal fins when skiing off-piste.

Twisting the feet left or right makes skis pivot on their fins and draw a clean curve in the snow.
Just on hard snow surface you have to care that fins do really carve and occasionally „shoot“ feet and skis forward to put a pressure on fins and to execute a powerful „jet turn on the fins“.
Otherwise you are free to turn as you are used to (carve and skidded turns on ski edges).

The position of fins behind ski boots produces momentum that
forces both skis to automatically stabilize in the driving direction and therefore parallel to each other. Unlike shaped carver this ski offers no handle
at ski tip section to get skewed by bumpy terrain.

The ski above has streamlined fins for high speed in soft snow.
Models for hard snow favor short upright edge of the front fins.
Extremely short ski tail allows smooth turns „on the fins“ in steep terrain.
Models with large fins under your feet are good riding down very steep corn snow fields. These models are successors of old "Firngleiter", just upgraded by metal fins.

Bored to death on wide flat pistes ? Me too.
Why not bring the best of the freeriding terrain to the piste ?

Our initiative should convince piste-owners to convert the steepest of their slopes
into FUN PISTES with elements like

- Artificial HILLS in various forms and sizes, piled up on originally flat piste
(there could not be enough of them, they are the best avalanche protection).
- LOFTY PATH is a 2 to 3 m wide path winding down the slope on 0.5 m earth dam
like a lofty slalom.
- STAIRCASE is really a staircase covered with snow. The best of us master
45° gradient and 3 m width. Adrenalin comes at 60° / 1.5 m.

- CHIMNEYS are steep chutes 50-70° or semi opened chimneys with ski-turning possibilities in the flanks. After every 30 or 50 m there must be a secure landing.
- SOFT WALL is very steep but short slope covered with soft snow
- HARD WALL, the same as above, but hard and much shorter (guess why ?)
- HALF- and QUARTER-PIPES known from fun parks but steeper
and evtl.with rippled surface.
- STEEP SLALOM is an adrenalin slalom on 40-60° gradient, soft snow.

- CASCADE is a very steep slope with built-in cliffs and soft snow landings
between them.
- DIVING BOARD is a 1 to 5 m long, gently declined board, fixed on a steep slope covered with soft snow.
Facing the depth under the board, skier/rider slides slowly over the board before he/she „dives“ under. Leaving the board before the end shortens the free fall.
- TRAMPOLINE is a robust ski-friendly trampoline fixed on a steep slope.
Skier or rider comes down the hill, jumps in, shows some tricks and finally
jumps over the border in the depth.

- GORGE with skiable flanks is winding down the steep slope.
- CREST is a pleasure known to few freeriders, as natural crests are hardly skiable.
Artificial crests could be long descending with gradients up to 60° or short ascending
up to 90° .
- HELIX is a half-pipe or couloir having bottom as steep as 40-50 °.
Every 10 m there is an arc spanned over the half-pipe. The arc is a skiable
bridge with a protecting fence on the downhill side.
The trace left has the form of a spiral.

Turn ski highways into playgrounds for adults and kids !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
...Under that beautiful snow(about 6 inches in the short time we were skiing) was the most beautifully sheet of ice.:
...Downhill Ice Skating!
Why not skate skiing, Trekchick?
Believe me, you can enjoy it
The only thing you need is the high grip on the ice sheet,
a kind of skate skids.

We have invented a ski combining features of ice skate and ski.



In eastern Austria there are snow conditions like in New England,
that means suboptimal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
Yes !

I have seen the RaxSki....definitely....ah...."different".

Dangerous looking corn snow tool.
I dunno if I want to try them or not.....(conflicted).
...OK, I probably would try them....I ain't skeeerd...
Yeah, Rax Skis are coming to US ,
March 4 thru 11, 2008.
You can see and try them during Schneider Cup Festival
in North Conway, NH.
We could visit Vermont if there is an interest.
post #39 of 54

If You Want To Try Anton Gliders At Bretton Woods

The Mount Washington Resort (Bretton Woods Ski Area) has Anton Gliders for rent if you would like to try them. You need to rent the skis and take a private lesson with them. If you are interested you can contact them at 603-278-3314 and book through the ski school.

As I said in my previous post, they are an interesting ski to use.

In the interest of full disclosure, I teach at Bretton Woods Adaptive. Drop by the Adaptive office and say hi. I'm normally there on the weekends.
post #40 of 54
Mmm I can't help but wonder a couple of things that seem to me to be fairly "obvious" but I haven't actually seen a pair first hand, and I must be mising something:

I'm not sure that I have missed anything, as Anton speaks in his videos as though he is the only person to have thought about ski design.. this simply is not the case: other ski designers are well aware of the set of characteristics you can change in designing a ski; to get its unique set of charactersistics: it doesn't sound as though he has talked to other ski desiners to find out why conventional skis are made as they are; and that they may have chacteristics his don't that the punters still desire... like maybe being able to ski on hard pack or through slush; or with slippy turns ?

Has Anton simply "stumbled upon" the age old truism well known to ski manufactuers that soft skis are way easier to turn; and control on entry to the turn? Every manufacturer wants to produce soft skis as a general rule, people always love them intially... however; there are usual manufacturing trade offs: if you make them too soft; all sorts of other things tend to go to pot; including your ability to ski through crud; on hard surfaces and at speed: the ski apparently doesn't "hold" well: you also tend to expereience killer vibrations when doing skiddy turns.

For this reason; if you go into any ski shop "novice" skis tend to be very soft; and in fact the French pioneered the idea (20--30 years ago?) of teaching using very short very flexible skis to start with; that you very quickly moved on from; (like in a matter of days) once you had the idea of what was going on-- to more conventional skis.

To achieve his "preload" I don't understand why you need all the supernumary scaffolding: this can be achieved by having more aggressive static camber (I forget whether its called negative or positive... but also called "hogging" by engineers when building bridges) built into the skis when laid up in their intial molds. This is done on skis anyway; look at any ski before you stand on it; it is not in reverse cameber till you load it...but as with all things; you can get to the point of too much of a good thing. The ski manufacturers tend to like skis that can be skid anywhere albeit maybe not brilliantly, to maximise market appeal: even for more extreme skis; you can still basically ski them anywhere, they may just not excel. The average skiier would be pretty hacked off if they have to pack up and go home at the end of the day when it gets slushy for instance; or if they want to do slippy turns: a must have in the skiing armoury...

If there really is a need for "extreme" skis like this i.e. extreme in the sense of being much softer than normal skis; they can easily be made without this extra stuff on the top.. or am I missing something... ? This set of charactersitics can surely be made using standard manufacturing techniques...

What are the advantages of spending extra manufacturing cost on acheiveing flex/ camber characteristics achievable in a normal cheaper non patent protected standarly easy to manufacture ski?

In some senses I hope there is: because it is exciting when new characteristics are introduced that add to the fun; and for his sake; I hope it is; good luck to the man--innovation is not easy--it's just I don't perceive what it is...

Jonny
post #41 of 54
Jonny,

One of the things that is neat about the Anton Gliders is that everything is adjustable. The preload springs can be changed. So you can adjust the stiffness by putting in stiffer springs. (You could even have different stiffness springs front and rear.) There are plugs under the binding that can be changed out with different density plugs to change the under foot feel. These can also be adjusted as to when they contact the ski as it flexes to change the radius of the ski.

All things considered, the Anton Glider is a geeky ski. And I say that in a very complementary way. If you want a ski that you can fiddle with and get to perform the way you want it to, this is about the only option out there. I've watched pros fiddle with boot adjustments to get what they want. This ski has similar options for the carving tool.

What I'd like to see is Anton Gliders get on the race circuit. (I don't know if this would be considered a "race legal" ski.) Adjusting the skis could become just as important as how they are tuned. If someone can cut tenths of seconds off their runs with these skis, you'd see every manufacturer going this way.

As far as having all the extra camber held in place by the springs, this allows for a more forgiving environment on a softer ski. If you get out of position on the ski (in the backseat), the tip of the ski will still engage the snow and carve. Same for the tail. You couldn't get this with a highly cambered stiff ski. It just wouldn't feel the same to the skier.
post #42 of 54
T-Square's comment about the ski being adjustable like a boot is a good one ! Jonnyhifi is right-on with the comment about the soft-ski/stiffer ski progression typically found in ski skill hierarchies today and how you really don't need all the hardware to get what some particular level of skier might need. Trouble is...you need to buy either a soft ski, moderate or stiff ski to get the behavior you want. I like having a soft snow ski, an "all terrain" ski and a stiffer race-carving ski in my quiver so I can pick the right tool for the conditions. Anton has invented a fairly simple concept to allow you to make a nearly camberless, soft ski (really friendly in the bumps and for beginners) into a stiffer tool for carving serious arcs on hard snow by spinning two adjusters. Spiffy concept that actually works (for once in skiing history!)

The Anton Gliders, while REALLY expensive right now, should drop in price once manufacturing costs can be reduced (which I hear they are doing for next year on some models). Rumor has it the $1800 price point is one target...sure, still expensive, but pretty darn close to the $1200-$1500 prices some high-end skis from large manufacturers are listed at these days...

The Gliders are a great proof-of-concept you can actually buy (and rent w/lesson at Bretton Woods). While definitely weird looking at first, the proof is in the turns and adjustability. These things actually make cool turns with very little effort, and you can completely change them from floppy-soft noodles to firm-and-rowdy race carvers by twiddling the adjusters.

I have not had a chance to try any of the "race kits" for them (Jay Frischman says he has such things floating around their workshop)...but I can only imagine they really work. (Jay Frischman has told me he has taken the Carbon EX model into some Nastar/Beer League courses and kicked butt on occasion...much to the horror of the pure race-ski folks watching...)

We will have some more videos very soon of the Gliders in action and how they adjusters work...I will post them here and at ExoticSkis.com. We should have a pair of Anton Gliders in the ExoticSkis fleet on snow this week!...We'd like to post some info on how the Gliders really work as a daily ski in the longer term....stay tuned...

Now...if they could build the same adjusting mechanism into a powder ski.....
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
T-Square's comment about the ski being adjustable like a boot is a good one ! Jonnyhifi is right-on with the comment about the soft-ski/stiffer ski progression typically found in ski skill hierarchies today and how you really don't need all the hardware to get what some particular level of skier might need. Trouble is...you need to buy either a soft ski, moderate or stiff ski to get the behavior you want. I like having a soft snow ski, an "all terrain" ski and a stiffer race-carving ski in my quiver so I can pick the right tool for the conditions. Anton has invented a fairly simple concept to allow you to make a nearly camberless, soft ski (really friendly in the bumps and for beginners) into a stiffer tool for carving serious arcs on hard snow by spinning two adjusters. Spiffy concept that actually works (for once in skiing history!)

The Anton Gliders, while REALLY expensive right now, should drop in price once manufacturing costs can be reduced (which I hear they are doing for next year on some models). Rumor has it the $1800 price point is one target...sure, still expensive, but pretty darn close to the $1200-$1500 prices some high-end skis from large manufacturers are listed at these days...

The Gliders are a great proof-of-concept you can actually buy (and rent w/lesson at Bretton Woods). While definitely weird looking at first, the proof is in the turns and adjustability. These things actually make cool turns with very little effort, and you can completely change them from floppy-soft noodles to firm-and-rowdy race carvers by twiddling the adjusters.

I have not had a chance to try any of the "race kits" for them (Jay Frischman says he has such things floating around their workshop)...but I can only imagine they really work. (Jay Frischman has told me he has taken the Carbon EX model into some Nastar/Beer League courses and kicked butt on occasion...much to the horror of the pure race-ski folks watching...)

We will have some more videos very soon of the Gliders in action and how they adjusters work...I will post them here and at ExoticSkis.com. We should have a pair of Anton Gliders in the ExoticSkis fleet on snow this week!...We'd like to post some info on how the Gliders really work as a daily ski in the longer term....stay tuned...

Now...if they could build the same adjusting mechanism into a powder ski.....
Interesting... Being a bit geeky myself I suspect I'd like to have stuff on the skis to fiddle with.

Haven't there been other attempts to produce skis with variable flex ?

A web search for patents for that brought up loads of stuff.

In particular there is a main stream manufacturer that produces skis at the moment where you clip in a plastic horned device (wish it was a trident lol); that increases the effective thickness of the ski; and hence its bending stiffness. Clearly this only gives you a 2 step softness/ hardness; but different forks could increase the variability albeit not continuously as per the Anton Gs. There's also a design whereby there are pretensioning wires (or is it bar?) sunk in the ski structure; that can be twisted with the adjusting knob at the end; to hence change the stiffness...

I wonder what became of those ideas?

Is the market for some reason not particularly receptive to adjustable equipment? (Sad for those of us who love fiddling).

Or is it always likely to be a niche market for adjustable skis: like adjustable shock absorbers on cars: yes for rally and race cars, or executive cars loaded with toys: but not for main stream shopping cars.

Is the reality that most skiiers really wouldn't tell the difference between one pair of skis and another; they are plastic planks: what affects most purchasers decisions are : availiability (i.e. what's in the shop) marketing bluff; price and "what their mate recomended"... as opposed to what the kit does or whether it's apropriate (what a cynic eh?)

SO anyway... anyone know what's come of other variable stiffness skis?
post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Square View Post
Jonny,

One of the things that is neat about the Anton Gliders is that everything is adjustable. The preload springs can be changed. So you can adjust the stiffness by putting in stiffer springs. (You could even have different stiffness springs front and rear.) There are plugs under the binding that can be changed out with different density plugs to change the under foot feel. These can also be adjusted as to when they contact the ski as it flexes to change the radius of the ski.

All things considered, the Anton Glider is a geeky ski. And I say that in a very complementary way. If you want a ski that you can fiddle with and get to perform the way you want it to, this is about the only option out there. I've watched pros fiddle with boot adjustments to get what they want. This ski has similar options for the carving tool.

What I'd like to see is Anton Gliders get on the race circuit. (I don't know if this would be considered a "race legal" ski.) Adjusting the skis could become just as important as how they are tuned. If someone can cut tenths of seconds off their runs with these skis, you'd see every manufacturer going this way.

As far as having all the extra camber held in place by the springs, this allows for a more forgiving environment on a softer ski. If you get out of position on the ski (in the backseat), the tip of the ski will still engage the snow and carve. Same for the tail. You couldn't get this with a highly cambered stiff ski. It just wouldn't feel the same to the skier.
So: from what you say: could the same effect be created by having a heavily cambered; soft ski ?

I still don't really see what the external spring achieves compared to a standard ski construction; apart form having the spring rate adjustable: which clearly is fun; and indeed other manufacturers have ways of doing this on production skis. No harm in having different methods at all; and this one may be easier; by potentially being infinetly variable ? (or do you have to change to discrete, different spring sets?) Outside of the ease of setting the spring rate if infinately adjustable (i.e. there's a knob somwehere that you twist to give stiffer/ harder flex.. ?) what advantage do Anton Glider's theoretically give, compared to what other manufacturers can produce if they want to?
post #45 of 54
Quick little video of the Anton Gliders Carbon EX on snow:

http://www.vimeo.com/849345

(better quality than current YouTube)


post #46 of 54
The skier uses a bit of knee angulation there thus amateur viewers may not credit that for showing "very little effort".

Any one-legged stuff?
post #47 of 54
The next thing will be to get a beginner/intermediate "non carving" person, tape them on their conventional skis...put them on the Anton Gliders and see if there is any difference in their turns....could be interesting....let's hope the snow doesn't completely fade away too soon..!
post #48 of 54
Is this information still correct:
http://www.antongliders.com/lessons.asp
?
post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
The skier uses a bit of knee angulation there thus amateur viewers may not credit that for showing "very little effort".

Any one-legged stuff?
I wouldn't just stop at angulation: clearly the skiier is pretty competent: so: balance is good; leg rotation in there; edge skills are good etc...

which is not to denegrate the AG ski; simply the video doesn't tell us much other than it clearly can be skiid conventionally for carved turns... nothing wrong with that at all.

The principle claims (as I understand them) are: that it makes it possible for novice skiers to make the ski perform at a level that ther inherent skills would not make you think they could: i.e. it would be far more interesing to see a beginner on them; where gross perturbations of the inputs (through lack of skill and experience) are typical for a begginner: i.e. balance all over the place (probably mostly leaning towards the back).. posture blocked: leg ratation blocked: leg not turning in the hip socket; leg separation poor; edging skills rudimentary... attempting to make "Z" turns; rather than rounded turns, darting across the slope etc...

The conventional way to get beginners -- and beginners who fancy themselves as "intermediates" LOL, to stop making jagged turns is to take them onto a seriously non threatening slope; i.e. flatter, where they are happy with the increase in speed as they go across the fall line, before they start slowing down, as they finish the turn. On steeper slopes; they panic before they get to this point; and somehow (many mechanisms) throw the skis sideways, to avoid that terrifying speeding up sensation. They aren't inclined to make darting turns if they are on a shallow slope which doesn't phase them: then some of the claimed conventional problems with conventional skis go away: so we need to see said beginner alternating between conventional kit; and the anton gliders; and for good experimental method; someone who has spent a day or two on conventional kit; trying both; and someone having spent a day on A-Gs then trying both; so we don't get confused by the effect of changing to unfamiliar kit..., and in particular on less user friendly slopes than a nursery slope, which usually block the begginners ability to make flowing turns by psychology: not by mechanics.

It is important to see a beginner who has no finesse with the inputs required to make conventional kit work-- or else the point is lost. This cannot be emulated by a skilled skier. Also: "problems" in their skiing tend to be gross; so how the kit behaves to these "sub optimal" control inputs will be much easier to see. As skiiers get more and more skilful; these things become harder and harder to spot except to the trained eye.

Sorry if this sounds a long winded request; but this is really intriguing... so it would be really interesting to see the claims demonstrated.

PS: anyone got any thoughts on my question above about what the advatnages are of the AG mechanism; compared to softness/ precambering being put in a conventional ski and the use of existing technologies for adjusting flex on a conventional ski? I still really don't see it... though if it means that people are encouraged to learn on soft skis; albeit by being attracted to some techy supernumeray springs and marketing; then that is not a bad thing. Always good to get back to basics; and get away from the conventional marketing obsession with selling everyone kit they'll never flex in a million years -- this is true for boots and skis... and if to sell the soft ski; you need to advertise technologcal innovation as the punters will not simply buy a pre cambered soft ski; this would be alined with the marketing techniques used for most other marketed innovations in the ski industry!


Jonathan
post #50 of 54
Tried them yesterday and was very impressed.
post #51 of 54
Hi Martin,

Which model(s) did you try?
What did you find impressive about their performance or adjustability?

Thanks!
post #52 of 54
I tried them on Saturday and I was not impressed. They are designed so that ones stance is " centered" but I found the sweet spot to be aft. As well, they work best when one truly tips the inside foot (which I think is a good thing), but they also seem to require significant inside ski pressure, which IMO will kill you on traditional carving skis. Lastly, because of the shock absorption and the design that does not reward pressuring the tips, there is absolutely no rebound generated out of the turn on these skis. Personally I don't want a carving ski that can't pop me into the air some if I truly load up the tips.

I can see these being a ski that might help someone with no carving skills learn to carve and understand the feeling and mechanics of carving. Having ssid that, I don't think the way the Gliders teach one to carve will hold up on traditional skis. The skier will be too aft, and the skier will dig the inside ski on every turn and go down.

I am not a believer but smarter people than I seem to like them.
post #53 of 54

damped undamped, soft or stiff?

Thank you hedged skiier fro your observations:

I am curious: the lack of "pop" that you're looking for out of a turn; you put down to the shock absorption in the ski: could it simply be a very very very soft ski, although not in the conventional sense? so it gives no force that you can... "push" against, at the end of the turn?

I wasn't aware the ski was well damped: if you put it over the edge of a table and give it a "twang" does it go "boing" or more "thunk" ? (boing= not very damped, thunk very damped), but the force to displace it to twang it; is it low i.e. like what you'd need to twang a novice ladies ski; or high, like the force needed to twang a WC men's ski? (which would indicate how soft or stiff the ski is; which is independent of damping)...

Sorry to be so boringly nerdy; but I'm intrigued; and there are none to play with in the UK.

thanks.
post #54 of 54
If you go to their website they show a video of them pulling up the tips and then allowing them to drop. On traditional skis the tips bounce up and down when this is done, but on the gliders they immediately snap back to the snow and stay there. I would say that this defines damp.

As for rebound, what you can get out of the skis is an amazingly quick edge and direction change, mainly because they are so short (I was skiing on 155's) with anincredibly tight turn radius, and I think that some people are confusing this with rebound. The skis will not snap back after being bent from tip pressure for two reasons. First the ski is not designed to be skied with tip pressure and they perform poorly when the weight is up front. Second the ski has no camber and the substantial camber that exists in it while skiing is created from the shock absortion system that bends the ski. IMO this takes the life completely out of the ski. What they have built is the ulltimate Cadillac or Merceded ride, the opposite of a Porsche.
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