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Anton Gliders

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
Guess what I skied today?

http://www.antongliders.com/default.asp

Pretty much the wierdest ski I've ever seen. I ran into thier site once before and so today when I saw a guy walking across the snow with an armful of skis. I had to try them. For you guys. In the name of science.

I took a good look at them while he was setting them up for me. They are a very small ski with a huge plate on them. The plate is connected in the middle with two pivots like the Salomon pilot plates had, but at the ends are long composite springs that connect to the tip and tail of the skis. The plate/springs are very adjustable. There are a number of screws that can be used to preload the springs and maybe do other stuff, I'm not really sure what. The ski itself is very narrow (38mm), very short (150cm?), and very light. It is carbon fibre, and comes out of the mod with no camber at all. Look at the pictures though... the ski has mucho camber because of the springs. So much that it requires extenders on the brakes so that they will reach the snow. The whole combo is very soft. But eventually gets stiff when the springs are all loaded up.

So once they were set up I took them out skiing in what for them was probably the worst possible conditions. Several inches of sundrenched slush. I only had green and one blue trail to work with, and I took three runs on them. The first impression I had was that they were less tippy than I expected them to be considering thier 38mm waist. The second impression I had was the noticeable topout feel of the springs when skating. I felt a clunk with each step. No big deal. When I got off the lift I skated away into onto a flat cat track which had a 90 degree bend into a tunnel. The 90 degree bend was interesting. It's pretty hard to steer the darnthings. It was tough making my inside ski keep up. I almost ran over the rep when he stopped. I couldn't skid them into a hockey stop like normal. Got them onto the main slope and made some turns. No problemo. They pretty much felt like normal skis and weren't hurt by the conditions very much. The rep said you should weight them 50/50 all the time. I'm not so sure about that. They didn't feel that good to me when weighted that way, but it was interestin to feel the suspension effect of the springs change if you had more weight on one foot than the other. On the 2nd run I tried some white pass and one footed sking. It was hard to get much ankle flexion on them, but they still felt pretty normal. On the third run I tried them on the blue trail. It was fun carrying the speed from that trail into the green trail. I will admit that I was able to carve them with angles that would not have been possible on a normal ski. Not at those speeds anyway.

I'm unsure about these skis. They are not meant for me. they are for aspiring carvers and probably are meant more as a tool for learning like snowblades. It would be fun to see what others thought of them. I'd like to be able to try them in lesson.
post #2 of 54
Interesting. 38 is the waist? Wow, even narrower than the scary Stealths. You mentioned that these were the worst possible conditions, how do you think they would have been on hardpack?

They look extremely over engineered and almost an answer to a question that wasn't asked.
post #3 of 54
Thread Starter 
If I'd seen them this morning I could have told you abot hardpack and ice. They seem like they'd be good on hardpack. They seem like they'd be sketch on ice, but... they do have the dges right under your foot. It seems like that would be a big plus on ice. Maybe the suspensin would help too. Anyway, the point of thes skis isn't that they are for people who can carve. They are for people who can't, buut want to.

I would have thought you'd love thier techiness.
post #4 of 54
They do look cool and I would love to get on them at some point. You do know how to get me jealous don't you. You are such a tease
post #5 of 54

Unbelievable...

...I have to have 2 pairs, one for slalom and one for GS. These are FIS-legal, right? I mean, how could the FIS possibly argue with a design that is so obviously safer than anything that came before?

Not to high jack this thread, but have we been through a "weirdest ski ever, present and past" discussion? I seem to remember a Kneissl from the 50s that had...get this...an air intake on the top of the ski, kind of like a turbo intake on a 60s Pontiac, that blew air out the bottom and thus lifted the running surface off the snow for great speed. And, of course, there was the world-famous Hexcel Split Tail. The Breckenridge Peak 8 Ski School had a pair given to us, which we used to ski down the stone steps next to the lodge...but I'm sure y'all can to better than that. Come on, guys...don't disappoint me...
post #6 of 54
Epic, did they make you 'feel like an expert skier' ??
post #7 of 54

Hey, just looking at these puppies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Epic, did they make you 'feel like an expert skier' ??
...makes me feel like an expert, because I'm too smart to try a pair! I just thought of another one! Skorpions, with the "Power 3rd Edge"!
post #8 of 54
There was an after market product that required cutting a slot through your skis near the tail for a spring loaded fin that the skier could deploy, I was never sure 'why'. Now Fischer has a monster fatty with a fin...

Kastle's air core skis that you could see through...

Kneissl has a current model with removable supplementary edges...

'The Claw'.

Fluid and ball bearing filled packs that can be attached to the top sheet of a ski as damping...

The Salomon Pro-Link binding.

Scott Fiberglass ski boots.
post #9 of 54

Outstanding...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
There was an after market product that required cutting a slot through your skis near the tail for a spring loaded fin that the skier could deploy, I was never sure 'why'. Now Fischer has a monster fatty with a fin...

Kastle's air core skis that you could see through...

Kneissl has a current model with removable supplementary edges...

'The Claw'.

Fluid and ball bearing filled packs that can be attached to the top sheet of a ski as damping...

The Salomon Pro-Link binding.

Scott Fiberglass ski boots.

...keep it coming, guys! If anybody has photos, that would be even better. I'm having a really horrible day at work and need some Big Laughs...
post #10 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Kneissl has a current model with removable supplementary edges....
I tried 'em when I was in Lech. They had taken out the rear modules. I didn't really see the point. If you are edging the ski, the extra edges were nowhere near the snow. The only time you felt them was in the liftline.
post #11 of 54

This thread is making me want to go to Belleayre.

50 50 at all times did you say?

In-con-ceivable edge angles at subconceivable speeds?

This ski needs TeleBulldogs.
post #12 of 54
Thread Starter 
Take Batgirl with ya, she's one person I'd like to see try these.
post #13 of 54
Good call, that was exactly the plan.
post #14 of 54
Bumpity Bump Bump.

One of my students comes to me specifically to work on his carving (alpine board and hardboots). He emailed me the other day to ask me what I thought of Anton Gliders. He says that if they do what they claim, he would like to get them for his whole family (he carves and they don't).

There was a thread about them on Bomberonline a while back, but it did not get very far. It does not seem like this thread got very far either.

Has anyone else tried these or know someone who has? Any other comments would be helpful. Thanks.
post #15 of 54
I've tested them pretty extensively. It's a really cool idea. The only thing is they sent me the wrong pair for what I teach. The one I have is really good for first timers. But with any speed it starts to vibrate. I put Chris Geib's wife, Laurie, on them and it really didn't work for her because she is good enough to over-ski it.

I want to get a more advanced pair for next season because I think an intermediate skier can really benefit from it as well. It makes it so that controlled carving is a lot easier than skidding. The manufacturers have refused to create skis that really draw you away from skidding. The ski really works like an ice skate.

Having said all that, I don't think it will go anywhere. Instructors tend to hate this kind of stuff, and back away from using it. The culture has become very connected to skid, pivot, switch as a result of the park and twin tips stuff. This is like the carve snowboards. They were wonderful, and now nobody (or few) ride them. And, finally, they are a bit limited as to what they'll do on a non-groomed surface.
post #16 of 54
They look scary.
post #17 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
This is like the carve snowboards. They were wonderful, and now nobody (or few) ride them. .
For some strange reason I had the impression he was working on a snowboard as well?
post #18 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
Having said all that, I don't think it will go anywhere. Instructors tend to hate this kind of stuff, and back away from using it. The culture has become very connected to skid, pivot, switch as a result of the park and twin tips stuff.
I'll buy the won't go anywhere part, but the other part, really Weems?
post #19 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post
I'll buy the won't go anywhere part, but the other part, really Weems?
Yeah. I'm afraid so. I don't see many instructors really using parallel mechanics when they have opportunity to at that level. We're close here in AspenSnowmass, and individuals are making progress, but it's so easy, especially for long timers to realize that they've got to get some terrain acquisition soon or they lose em. On come the brakes! Out come the superwedges.
post #20 of 54
I saw a guy this spring on a very similar ski. I don't know if I can explain the differences well. The strap that connects to the front and back of the Anton Glider is fixed but this guys connected to the sidewalls and moved back and forth as the ski flexed. He said something like, the ski rides like it is in power all the time..
post #21 of 54
The video is interesting. The claim is the ski is pre-loaded for turning. Looks scary for soft conditions and might be part of the experience reported by Epic.
This looks like a real skiers tool.

The site actually suggests these skis not be used in powder or slush (link)
Quote:
SNOW CONDITIONS
The Anton Gliders are not designed to float in powder or spring slush. If it is a powder day, put on your powder skis and fly through the powder. It doesn’t get any better than that.
But if you crave the flying experience of powder and there is no powder to be had, or if you have never developed the skills to ski powder, grab a pair of Anton Gliders and head for your nearest groomed slope.
The Gliders are optimized for a packed groomed surface but they also perform miraculously on hardpack and ice. They will go through up to 6 inches of dry powder on top of a groomed run and also slice through soft crud like a torpedo.
post #22 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
Yeah. I'm afraid so. I don't see many instructors really using parallel mechanics when they have opportunity to at that level. We're close here in AspenSnowmass, and individuals are making progress, but it's so easy, especially for long timers to realize that they've got to get some terrain acquisition soon or they lose em. On come the brakes! Out come the superwedges.

I agree completely, and am pleasantly surprised that an instructor would say such a thing. I see a lot of instructors that, while they ski very smoothly, are not really carving. There are very very few instructors that could be described as skiing powerfully. There are times and places when skidded turns are invaluable, but there is no reason not to carve on a groomed run.



EDIT:I just realized I didn't say anything about the skis, which is why I opened this thread. Silly maggot.

I've met the guy that is behind these, he seems to be very excited about them and sincerely believes that they will help people ski better. He did not seem to be advising them to be used by advanced or expert skiers. His main focus was trying to get beginners on them, saying they are much easier to learn on. I think this makes sense, although I could see begininers being turned off by the bizareness of them, people tend to stick with what they know/think they know. I have absolutly zero interested in these, but I hope they help some people learn easier/better.
post #23 of 54
About three weeks ago I got a chance to try the 38 mm waist Anton Gliders at Bretton Woods. They are very interesting skis.

Here’s a YouTube video where Anton Wilson, the inventor was interviewed. He explains some of the mechanics of the ski.



Standing on them was interesting. When your boot overlaps both side of the ski it really looks narrow. (My current ski is a clown shoe wide Metron.) They are now making them in various widths and lengths with the 38 mm being the narrowest.

Like Epic, I really noticed the clicking when you picked up and put down the skis while walking. It’s caused by the springs. It’s weird under foot when you first feel it.

We did a few runs on the beginner area to get the feel or them. They are very quick edge to edge because of the narrow waist. Tip and go. They are very forgiving of your front and rear balance because of the pre-load on the tips and tails. The extreme camber with the springs pre-loading them forces the tips and tails down on the snow and keeps them in contact along the full length of their edges as you slide. The edges stay engaged. I really noticed this when watching another skier on the flats go over some close spaced undulations. The skis tracked the snow perfectly. It looked like they were glued to the surface. I saw no spaces under them as you would with a normally cambered ski. (It reminded me of a tank track in contact with the ground.)

The inside ski wants to be engaged and weighted. You get instant feedback if it isn’t. Also, the rep told us to initiate the turn with the inside ski, (lead with the inside knee, tip the inside foot, etc.) That works; the turns are smooth and comfortable. Very easy to link carved turns.

A friend of mine who is a race coach tried them. He was taking bumps and changing edges in air. He said they engage instantly and hold well when he landed. He was impressed with the performance.

As an instructor, I can see where these can be used for beginners/intermediates can learn to carve. It should be very easy to teach people with these skis. Then the skills learned should easily transfer from the glider to a “standard” ski.

Techno geeks like me will love these things. We are talking super adjustable playthings. First, the springs can be removed and replaced. They make several different spring weights. So you can make the tips or tails as soft or hard. You can have hard tips and soft tails, etc. There are also round plastic/rubber pads under the front and rear of the binding plate. When the skis flex, these contact the top of the ski and stiffen the area under foot. These can be replaced with harder or softer pads. The distance between them and the top of the ski is also adjustable so you can dial in when they will touch and start stiffening this area. Don’t like the exact feel of your ski, well change it at will.

Bottom line, there is going to be a wide variety of thought on these skis. People will love them and people with think they are too geeky. I think these have a place in the market and that they will be a good teaching tool if used properly.

Keep a look out. They are going around to various areas demoing them.

Here’s some input from happy users. I believe this video was posted by Anton Gliders.



Anyone else out there ever skied on these? I’d really love to hear from some racers and other higher level skier who can really put them through the paces.
post #24 of 54
T-Square, is there a current listing of where they are available for demo or ski school? Last season there was a page that listed Belleayre, but now ...?
post #25 of 54
The guys at Anton Gliders must be busy...I just got a message today at ExoticSkis.com saying they wanted us to test their new invention....

We should be able to get a pair to test on the hardpack of Vermont after the new year sometime....

Anyone feel brave? (I think I'll bring the camcorder that day to show what these things are REALLY like)...

I will post news about the date and time (probably Killington mid-week) if anyone wants to come play with them and ask the Directory of Product Development (Jay Frischman) questions!

Pics from their website below:



post #26 of 54
I would love to bring my Navas along to compare.
post #27 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
I would love to bring my Navas along to compare.
OLD Navas...

Scary NAVA picture found at Roberts ski equiment museum:
http://www.robertsski.com/webpgss/musski.htm

Or NEW Navas?
Nava is indeed alive and well making extreme carving skis...I would love to try a pair!
post #28 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
OLD Navas...

Scary NAVA picture found at Roberts ski equiment museum:
http://www.robertsski.com/webpgss/musski.htm

Or NEW Navas?
Nava is indeed alive and well making extreme carving skis...I would love to try a pair!
Old Navas :

Still on old skis.... Now on Volant PowerKarves.


Scary stuff.
post #29 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExoticSkis View Post
I will post news about the date and time (probably Killington mid-week) if anyone wants to come play with them and ask the Directory of Product Development (Jay Frischman) questions!
Questions for JF (Phil, can you ask, please?): Does the preload on the front and rear springs change with skier weight? I see Looks on there. Does the the preload change with binding ramp?
post #30 of 54
Thread Starter 
Comprex - this may sound silly, and I may be over-simplifying, but I don't think ramp would really affect the system much. It felt to me as if the suspension was so soft that it woul absorb whatever ramp or delta you ut into the system. I kow that trying to flex a Doberman 150 while standing on those skis was simply impossible.
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