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frame by frame

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
How can I get something like this done?:
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]It looks like a great way to analyze my skiing. Can I just do it with a normal digital camera? Or do i need a rapid shoot option or something? I think I could paste the images together if need be. I have some basic Photoshop skills.
post #2 of 11
The basics:

1. A good-to-great digital camera - preferably a DSLR with a good lens.
2. Fast burst speed for the shutter. Most DSLRs can take 3 frames/sec, if not more, and many upper-level point-and-shoots (e.g. Canon S3-IS) can do similar feats.
3. Pre-set focus. This is where the DSLR (or a high-end point-and-shoot with manual focus override) is the champ. You'll want to focus set well before you start shooting your subject (or test on the forerunners).

(You could also use a high-end digital video camera, but the cost of entry will be higher.)

Other than that, it's just developing the skillset over time. Most of the good photogs out there - e.g Olle Larsson - cut their teeth on film equipment that cost thousands of dollars and did the montages by hand, with blades, loupes, etc.

These days, it's almost completely in the digital realm: digital camera, lost of photo manipulation software (and not just Photoshop, in many cases), and practice - tons of practice.
post #3 of 11
This is possible to do with a vid camera but will not be as sharp.

Use your vid editor to extract say 10 frames from a turn sequence. It is best if the cam remains perfectly still focused on the GATE. You can then use Photoshop or sim to add layer after layer. Set opacity. See result here... I think res would be better if working with still extracted from AVI versus mpg here.

post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys(gals). That's just another reason to buy a DSLR. We've been trying to for the last few years but the cost is just too high. (Skis first, then camera!)

I have a film SLR lying around but I haven't really checked out its feature set. Looks like I'll do so now.

The video camera is okay but I think in terms of quality and use (other than ski montages), I'd go with a camera.

Thanks again
post #5 of 11
As for analyzing skiing, frames are nice. I talked to a software guy. "Basic" software is a $1000. Du-oh!

Slo mo is pretty cool too for MA.


But I admit I am a "vid guy." Decent dig vid cam = $400. Quality DLSR = $800-1200
post #6 of 11
For motion analysis I like looking at video frame by frame because I get 30 frames per second so I can see exactly what is happening. If you get a video camera capable of progressive scan each frame is full 640x480 so you can also make a photoshop composite that looks quite nice.

The digital camera route works well too if you have a camera that can capture at 7+ frames per second.
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Dug up the old SLR and it does 2.5 frames/sec. Seems like a bit of a stretch, and I'm sure it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the pic I posted. Actually, come to think of it, there's no way I could get 4 or 5 frames in a turn.

The reason I'm hesitant to go for the video camera is because the pic quality doesn't have to be good at all because it was meant to capture motion, which is another tool in analyzing skiing. So maybe I'll just get a friend to stop halfway down the hill and just take my crap digicam to shoot a video. I actually had it done before while I was freeskiing (With a camera phone). It turned out alright but Im not sure how well I could analyze my racing with it.

Oh yes, and the video software. Needless to say, I say nay! The dartfish software sounds so cool, and I'd love to see myself in comparison to other runs and even other racers, but way too expensive.

In conclusion, I think I'll just use my digital to take some videos. My friend has a nice DSLR I'm sure he'd lend me if I really wanted to. Thanks for helping!
post #8 of 11
this was done with a 80 dollar P&S Canon I got to put together some of the ones from my new camera...
post #9 of 11
I decided to look at Larsson and Majors' World Cup Ski Technique book from 1979 (a great, if very dated, collection of ski racing photography) to see what their setup was back in the day.

For SL and GS: Nikon bodies with motor-drive, 5 frames-per-second shutter speed.

For DH: custom Nikon bodies with custom motor-drive, 9 frames-per second shutter speed.

For comparison: most Canon, Sony and Nikon point-and-shoots can do 2-4 fps, depending mostly on memory card write speed. Low-end DSLR units can usually do 6 or 7 fps - again, depending on memory write speed. The high-end DSLR units can do up to 10-11 fps.

In digital video, if you get a setup with a good lens setup, you can usually get 20-30 fps with varying degrees of sharpness of the images. Unless you get up to the semi-pro level, it'll be tough to get the same sharpness of image that you'll get in a DSLR (or even a good point-and-shoot, like the Canon S3-IS); but it'll still be more than enough for most.

Nice tree shot montage, by the way! At the speeds you'll be skiing in the trees, any point-and-shoot should be more than enough camera. But if you're snapping pix of racers, you'll need something with a bit more speed.
post #10 of 11
Originally Posted by MLBfreek35 View Post
How can I get something like this done?:
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]It looks like a great way to analyze my skiing. Can I just do it with a normal digital camera? Or do i need a rapid shoot option or something? I think I could paste the images together if need be. I have some basic Photoshop skills.
Just FYI. We shot this with a cheaper DSLR. A Nikon D70 with auto focus 300MM Zoom. The camera set at Fine (2000X3000) so the buffer will handle about a 7 shot burst at around 3 - 4 FPS. This was 2 single shots followed by a 7 shot burst, not all the pictures are in the layering. Liz used PhotoShop and a layering technique she learned from Jim Hayes, the Graphics guy that Olle uses. This was her second montage after learning the technique.

We are getting the Canon EOS - 1D Mark II with some pretty hefty lenses. The write speed is way up and up to 12 or so FPS depending on resolution. It will take up to 32 frames at a 4 FPS speed. Less frames at higher FPS. Lots of flexibility. The optics are way better and the AF is much faster. With the added performance comes a very hefty price tag, however. The D70 is a modest $400 - 500 body while the 1D Mark II is thousands more from a reputable dealer.

We are also adding a Sony or Panosonic pro class Camcorder to the arsenal. Again big bucks but you get what you pay for. Yes, you can create montages from either. The DSLR will be higher resolution, the Camcorder will give you way more frames per second. Depends on what you are shooting and detail you need to show.

Lots of work and very time consuming to produce a nice piece, however, and not really practical for personal MA IMHO. Plain old video with slomo is a lot more effective - bang for your buck and time constraints.
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
cheapER DSLR... the D70 is still a pretty expensive cam! I think I like the idea of using a video camera. Just want to see how it turns out. too bad the season is pretty much over for me.
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