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2008 Head Monster iM78 171cm review - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Allan, turn radius in trees, if we're talking pow and left overs isn't really a matter of turn radius. I prefer a wider ski with less sidecut as it's much easier to turn and skid as needed. More sidecut just causes more work.
post #32 of 57
I was not thinking so much about radius as overall quickness. Also very curious about edge grip on hard snow, overall forgiveness and how bump friendly they are compared to the AMC79.
post #33 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan o'neil View Post
I was hoping someone could compare and contrast the IM78 to the Fischer AMC79 in terms of: edge grip, bump ability and forgiveness. I own the AMC79 in a 176 and looking for something with a tighter radius for trees and bumps and better edge grip on ice would be nice too.
I have skied the AMC79 quite a bit, and while it was a pretty good ski for the lighter skier, many would say it wasn't up to par with the offerings of some other companies.

I found the AMC79 to be relatively forgiving in soft snow, but not so much on hard snow, as it felt a bit like a race ski with a .5 base bevel in terms of reactiveness. I liked it in soft bumps, but it was more challenging in harder bumps. I would rate the iM78 as a bit more stable, especially in rough snow, a more consistent grip on harder snow, quite a bit more predictable turn initiation, and a bit more manageable in bumps. The Fischer felt more powerful when you loaded up the tail and a bit more "racy", for better or worse, but the Head's overall smoothness, stability, and predictability make it a better ski for me.
post #34 of 57
Dawgcatching, you have a remarkable way of putting to paper what I felt but could not express. The AMC79 does seem to have a dual personality. In many ways it feels docile yet the tail can impose at different time. It has a very silky feel to it but I was only impressed with its grip on hard snow compared to the Recon which I also own. Although I have to say that I do prefer it in bumps to the Recon which is just to dead for bumps..does not help you at all.

Finally I would be very interested to hear how you feel the Nomad Blackeye compares in hard snow grip and especially in bumps compared to the IM78. When I first heard about the Blackeye I was convinced that it was the ski for me. I know the edge grip is supposed to be stellar for its width, but many say it is quite difficult or unforgiving in bumps...strange given how soft it is in longitudinal flex!
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post
Pull the bindings off of the Railflex, and if you want +5mm and are using a 305mm boot, set the toepiece at 310 instead of 305, and the heelpiece at 300. Then re-insert and set the macro screw at the middle position. The newest 2008 Railflex has a screw that allows for independent toe and heel adjustment (like a demo binding) which allows the skier to do this on the fly.
Hi All,
I plan to buy iM78, they are sold flat without bindings here (I am from Europe, Latvia) and both sales guy and HEAD official website recommend LD12 bindings. You talk about Railflex bindings here. Could you please clarify this issue for me before I've made the wrong choice?
I am 159 lbs, 5'7'", ( 174 cm, 72 kg), third season skiing, intermediate skier, we have mostly short, not very steep slopes often in poor conditions, really not groomed + I spend 10 days a year in Alps. Which length should I go for - 165 or 171? Thanks!!!!
post #36 of 57
Hey I'm about 230lbs, 6'. I ski east coast, in the tree's all over the place...I've been looking at the watea 78/84's but heard this ski could be a good one for me too...what are your thoughts?

Cheers,
Brendan
post #37 of 57
IMO, iM78's are better ski than the Wateas for someone with your build. I have not skied it yet, but own 4 other Heads, have skied the iM77, read the various reviews.

In general, very different feel to Heads than Fischers (owned three of these). Heads are beefy, smooth, decent but variable stiffness (the i construction produces a small but noticeable stiffening at speed that damps, keeps the performance envelope weirdly large). The same ski can be friendly at low speeds but can still rip and feel like it was meant to. Work best for medium to heavier skiers.

Fischers are anti-Heads. Also reasonably stiff, especially in the tails, but very lively, lot of snow feedback, smooth but not at all damp. IMO they work best for lighter to average weight, technically skilled skiers who like that feedback. The Wateas will have a lower top end than the iM78's, and feel a lot livelier as you approach that limit. They'll be better in powder, bumps and crud are probably a draw.

Different flavored skis for sure....
post #38 of 57
I'm new to this forum but I'm a retired level 2 CSIA instructor from Canada. I'm from Ottawa and I ski patrol at Mont Ste Marie.

Last season I bought the 2008 Head Monster Im78s in a 171cm length. I did around 35 days on them last season. At the time I weighed about 165 pounds and I'm 5'9.5". I found the ski spectacular in crud and powder (I went to Vail and Breckenridge last season) but very weak edge hold on boilerplate ice.

PROBLEM #1:

By the end of last season my Im78s had severe damage to the top sheet. I'm talking inch long chunks missing from the top sheet on both skis in different places. Last season was the most snow we have had in Eastern Canada in 30 years so I'm definitely not going to blame the damage on rocks.

Have any of you had similar top sheet issues with your Head Im78s?

My local head rep has asked me for a high definition photo of the skis and he will send them to his Warranty guy.

Problem #2:

At the end of last season I demoed a pair of Head Supershape Magnums. To make a long story short, these are the most FUN skis I have ever tried. The edge hold on the 163s I demoed blew me away. I have never felt so comfortable and confident in my carves. The ski has an almost magic ability to make me smile. I offered to buy the demos but the price they asked was too high.

Head Canada sponsors the Canadian Ski Patrol System so in November I will have the chance to get prodeal on the Magnums.

What I am having a VERY difficult time with is length. My IM78s are going to be my trip/trick/west coast ski I think. I like 170 lengths but I loved the edge hold on the 163s I demoed. I have been working out like mad since March so I now weigh 180 pounds.

Should I get the 163 or 170 Magnums? (I'm 5'9.5" and 180pounds)

Btw: Great forum, I love the tuning tips. Learning all kinds of stuff already.
post #39 of 57
Welcome...some comments included below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post
I'm new to this forum but I'm a retired level 2 CSIA instructor from Canada. I'm from Ottawa and I ski patrol at Mont Ste Marie.

Last season I bought the 2008 Head Monster Im78s in a 171cm length. I did around 35 days on them last season. At the time I weighed about 165 pounds and I'm 5'9.5". I found the ski spectacular in crud and powder (I went to Vail and Breckenridge last season) but very weak edge hold on boilerplate ice [a 1/3 bevel will help but true boilerplate is outside this ski's comfort zone. In those cases you're calling upon your fine technique to feather an edge holding line]

PROBLEM #1:

By the end of last season my Im78s had severe damage to the top sheet. I'm talking inch long chunks missing from the top sheet on both skis in different places. Last season was the most snow we have had in Eastern Canada in 30 years so I'm definitely not going to blame the damage on rocks.

Have any of you had similar top sheet issues with your Head Im78s?[Yes, known problem for some with 07/08 mod. I dealt directly with Head US regarding the RA and ship location. Very quick replacement with the 08/09 model, no issues. Great folks at Head]

My local head rep has asked me for a high definition photo of the skis and he will send them to his Warranty guy [I took photos also and sent url link...also, take close-up of serial number]

Problem #2:

At the end of last season I demoed a pair of Head Supershape Magnums [Great ski! Many I ski with use as day to day here in Summit and Eagle CO county] To make a long story short, these are the most FUN skis I have ever tried. The edge hold on the 163s I demoed blew me away. I have never felt so comfortable and confident in my carves. The ski has an almost magic ability to make me smile. I offered to buy the demos but the price they asked was too high.

Head Canada sponsors the Canadian Ski Patrol System so in November I will have the chance to get prodeal [the smart money way] on the Magnums.

What I am having a VERY difficult time with is length. My IM78s are going to be my trip/trick/west coast ski I think. I like 170 lengths but I loved the edge hold on the 163s I demoed. I have been working out like mad since March so I now weigh 180 pounds.

Should I get the 163 or 170 Magnums? (I'm 5'9.5" and 180pounds) [IMO at 180lbs + gear 170 cm or 177 cm if it was the only ski you'd carry]

Btw: Great forum, I love the tuning tips. Learning all kinds of stuff already [agree...e.g., you could spend a fortune trying to duplicate the drawings Alpinord provides for free on that tuning site ] .
post #40 of 57

Looking for Head I.M series comparison review...

I'm a level 9 skier at 54 yo and weighing in around 235 lb and looking for a 1 ski quiver for western skiing. I already have an eastern all-mountain ski I use on my VT trips from my home state of NJ. I've seen some great prices on the Head I.M series skis online from the last couple years with the prices being best on the 78 vs. the 82's or the 88's and with these skis not changing that much in the 06-08 timeframe the difference year to year is largely cosmetic. But once you spend the dough you forget about it and if you get the wrong ski then you're stuck, so I'm looking for that ski that would best be suited to handle whatever the west (mostly Utah) has to throw at me when I take my trips out there.

I'm just looking to strike that balance between a ski that will really do well in powder and crud, but still handle the groomers and a few bumps with competence. If it's super icy then I'll just hit the bar. Common sense tells me the 82 should be the ski, strike a compromise, but I just know the 88's probably gonna be significantly superior in the pow and crud. On the other hand, the prices on some 2 year old models but still in the shrink wrap 78's are unbelievable.

Can anyone help me out with some firsthand insight? Greatly appreciate it if they can.

Thanks in advance!
post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihols View Post
I'm a level 9 skier at 54 yo and weighing in around 235 lb and looking for a 1 ski quiver for western skiing.
level nines usually walk on water and do the recommending

the next level is parting the water

then deity

then instructor

OH and then HH

post #42 of 57
I own the 78 and the 88 and I have skied on the 82. They are all great skis. The 78 is by far the most versatile and it is the softest of the three skis, which makes it easier and friendlier in off piste conditions and especially in bumps. It still does quite well busting through crud and chop. The 82 and 88 are really wider GS skis. They are less versatile and quite a bit stiffer. Neither are really powder skis, but the 88 is a fine ski for Western dumps of 12-18 inches. It is one of the best skis made for soft skied out snow as it is unflappable through crud and chop and has no speed limit. The same is true for the 82 but is a little quicker edge to edge and doesn't float as well.

Both skis are reviewed pretty extensively here with an abundance of comments.
post #43 of 57
At a longer length the iM 78 is as good as either the 88 or 82, and easier to ski everywhere...imo
post #44 of 57
Great reviews, thanks for all the info!
post #45 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihols View Post
On the other hand, the prices on some 2 year old models but still in the shrink wrap 78's are unbelievable.

Thanks in advance!
Can you advise where you are seeing these great prices? I would definitely be interested. Thanks.
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihols View Post
I'm a level 9 skier at 54 yo and weighing in around 235 lb and looking for a 1 ski quiver for western skiing. I already have an eastern all-mountain ski I use on my VT trips from my home state of NJ. I've seen some great prices on the Head I.M series skis online from the last couple years with the prices being best on the 78 vs. the 82's or the 88's and with these skis not changing that much in the 06-08 timeframe the difference year to year is largely cosmetic. But once you spend the dough you forget about it and if you get the wrong ski then you're stuck, so I'm looking for that ski that would best be suited to handle whatever the west (mostly Utah) has to throw at me when I take my trips out there.

I'm just looking to strike that balance between a ski that will really do well in powder and crud, but still handle the groomers and a few bumps with competence. If it's super icy then I'll just hit the bar. Common sense tells me the 82 should be the ski, strike a compromise, but I just know the 88's probably gonna be significantly superior in the pow and crud. On the other hand, the prices on some 2 year old models but still in the shrink wrap 78's are unbelievable.

Can anyone help me out with some firsthand insight? Greatly appreciate it if they can.

Thanks in advance!
Just my opinion, but having skied all three in numerous conditions in the West, I'd say at your weight you should go with the 88. A true level 9 would, I assume, ski fast and blast through anything. That's what the 88 does.

One thing I would caution you about as far as the 88... the sidewall material was kind of suspect in the 06/07 model year. Many buyers experienced minor to significant sidewall cracking (which, to its great credit, Head warrantied very faithfully). If you're looking for an "older" pair, you might want to be aware of that.

Good luck with the choice.
post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nihols View Post
I'm a level 9 skier at 54 yo and weighing in around 235 lb and looking for a 1 ski quiver for western skiing. I already have an eastern all-mountain ski I use on my VT trips from my home state of NJ. I've seen some great prices on the Head I.M series skis online from the last couple years with the prices being best on the 78 vs. the 82's or the 88's and with these skis not changing that much in the 06-08 timeframe the difference year to year is largely cosmetic. But once you spend the dough you forget about it and if you get the wrong ski then you're stuck, so I'm looking for that ski that would best be suited to handle whatever the west (mostly Utah) has to throw at me when I take my trips out there.

I'm just looking to strike that balance between a ski that will really do well in powder and crud, but still handle the groomers and a few bumps with competence. If it's super icy then I'll just hit the bar. Common sense tells me the 82 should be the ski, strike a compromise, but I just know the 88's probably gonna be significantly superior in the pow and crud. On the other hand, the prices on some 2 year old models but still in the shrink wrap 78's are unbelievable.

Can anyone help me out with some firsthand insight? Greatly appreciate it if they can.

Thanks in advance!
If you have the Monster 88 retuned from the factory tune to a 1 base and 2 or I would even highly suggest a 3 side edge, it's your ski in a 186cm.

It will ski handsomely on the groomed and is far superior to the other 2 skis in the chop and the Pow. The factory tune has a bit too much base bevel and not enough side edge bevel. Less base bevel and more side edge transforms the 88 into a very respectable groomer ski with no downside in the soft stuff. What Bob said about the sidewall is absolutely correct so look for an 07/08 ski but as he noted it is a known problem on the 06/07 and they are very good about replacements.
post #48 of 57

Why I love Head!

I thought I would take a moment and say just how great Head service is. My IM78s had significant topsheet damage that I described in detail above. Head has just replaced them with a brand new set in less than 3 weeks. After sending the photos of the damage to my local Head rep (who then forwarded them to Head Warranty Canada) they told me to bring the skis with my receipt to the store I bought them at (Tommy and Lefebvre Bank st). T&L sent the skis into Head and I had replacements in no time.

I am buying my Head Supershape Magnums in a 163 next Monday. They have a bunch of pairs left over from last year. Hoping to get them for $500!

Big thanks for all the advice to DonDenver. Don I mentioned that other people on this forum had similar issues with the IM78s from last year and it did help convince the guys at my local ski shop (Not that their opinion mattered anyway).

I decided on the 163 for the Head Magnums because I want as much grip as possible and because I can't shake that happy feeling from when I demoed them last season.

I'll probably be a Head customer for life, finding this kind of customer service is so difficult!

I am going to try a 1/3 tune. What do I tell the guys at my local ski shop specifically? How do I know if their ski tuning machine can do a true 1/3?
post #49 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post
I thought I would take a moment and say just how great Head service is. My IM78s had significant topsheet damage that I described in detail above. Head has just replaced them with a brand new set in less than 3 weeks. After sending the photos of the damage to my local Head rep (who then forwarded them to Head Warranty Canada) they told me to bring the skis with my receipt to the store I bought them at (Tommy and Lefebvre Bank st). T&L sent the skis into Head and I had replacements in no time.

I am buying my Head Supershape Magnums in a 163 next Monday. They have a bunch of pairs left over from last year. Hoping to get them for $500!

Big thanks for all the advice to DonDenver. Don I mentioned that other people on this forum had similar issues with the IM78s from last year and it did help convince the guys at my local ski shop (Not that their opinion mattered anyway).

I decided on the 163 for the Head Magnums because I want as much grip as possible and because I can't shake that happy feeling from when I demoed them last season.

I'll probably be a Head customer for life, finding this kind of customer service is so difficult!

I am going to try a 1/3 tune. What do I tell the guys at my local ski shop specifically? How do I know if their ski tuning machine can do a true 1/3?
Pastuch,

I am a member of the CSPS as well. I enjoyed your review on the Head Magnum and I am looking at buying a pair of Supershapes. Just curious what price you were given on the skis. I have a price list for Elan/Dalbello, and a list of retailers for Head, but no pricing. You can PM me for any details...

Thanks
post #50 of 57
Can anyone comment on the difference between the Head IM77 and the newer IM78?
post #51 of 57
Depends on the year of the iM77 believe it or not. The last year (07) the iM77 went to a metal jacket (cap) construction and I liked it a lot. Previous years were more similar to the sandwich construction of the new iM78. Other than the tip / tail geometry, these skis all feel similar overall. They all have the smooth, damped, continuous edge feel characteristic of Heads.
post #52 of 57
I'm planning on demoing a pair of the 78's this weekend. I'm 5'10" 170 lbs. Should I go with the 171cm or the 177cm?
post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by suomi View Post
I'm planning on demoing a pair of the 78's this weekend. I'm 5'10" 170 lbs. Should I go with the 171cm or the 177cm?
I would go with the 171's unless you want to make gs turns at mach 10 all day. You're lighter than me by 10+ pounds and I dig the 171's. They're plenty stiff enough to justify a shorter length. I took the 177's out in a blizzard and they slayed me.
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by suomi View Post
I'm planning on demoing a pair of the 78's this weekend...
Agree with Magnus_CA regarding the length for your demo.

Hope you enjoy the ride on the monster as I’ve found [and mentioned elsewhere] it to be very remarkable ski that has an unbelievable balance for practically any condition failing for me predictably when approaching the extreme of those conditions that require a specialized ski. Further, Head skis [along with the Monster 78] are not for everyone but with a well played demo where you have time to find your balance and don’t park and ride you’ll know pretty quickly if you’re part of the fan club.

In my case I ski the 183 cm and it’s as nimble down a stick line as it is powerful and solid sweeping down a good pitch all the while with a shovel subtle enough to take the sting out of the hardened Volkswagen’s you may encounter [btw, why I prefer the im78 over the im88 and further the im78 turn radius over that of the slightly stiffer im82]. The embedded Head technology works as your edge and speed increases…deceptively so…but you need a good 1/3 tune rather than the factory set to hold a line and or shape turns at the extreme point. And as far as some unexpected snowfall dropping stuff quick and deep I have yet to be disappointed trying to keep up with some posse members e.g., while they ski their fats down Beav’s Stone Creek chutes. Of course that falls into pushing the envelope and you don’t want to do that for a living, but they hold their own and get you home. And as mentioned before, so again; the tune makes all the difference with this ski providing broad versatility. Good luck...post up your results.
post #55 of 57
Magnus and DonDenver...really appreciate the thorough feedback. I'm psyched to get out there on these and will of course throw in my two cents after the demo.
post #56 of 57
Also, can’t emphasize enough in what Atomicman posted. These skis need to be retuned once you get them. I had mine done and it makes a remarkable difference. The person that tuned mine (excellent tuner in Framingham) told me that the factory tune is somewhere in the vicinity of a 3 degree base and a 1 degree side cut. It should be exactly the opposite.
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikonfme View Post
Also, can’t emphasize enough in what Atomicman posted. These skis need to be retuned once you get them. I had mine done and it makes a remarkable difference. The person that tuned mine (excellent tuner in Framingham) told me that the factory tune is somewhere in the vicinity of a 3 degree base and a 1 degree side cut. It should be exactly the opposite.
this is exactly what i have found!! I just demoed a new pair of MOJO 94's . they were 3 base and 1 side edge.

I amgoing to buy a pair and immediately have them ground and I will tune them to a 1 base 3 side edge.
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