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Diamond Stone Quality

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I've been trying to improve the way I treat my skis and almost everything I've read suggests Diamond Stones followed by a Gummi stone is the way to go for edges. My questions are:

1) I've seen varying lengths on diamond stones, anywhere from 70-110 mm. Can I save the extra few bucks by going for something shorter or do I need the length?

2)
I've also seen a drastic difference in price on different manufacturers stones. For example DMT Diamond Stones are 30 bucks where as MoonFlex Stones are 3 or four times the price. What is the difference in the quality of the product?

3) I gather that I need multiple stones. How many and what grit stones should I spring for just starting out?

Thanks in advance for all your help.
post #2 of 20
1) The cost per surface area may be less for large diamonds (100mm), will cut more per stroke and last longer than shorter ones (100mm). There are some advantages with the shorter length stones relative to the radius of a side edge, especially for rigid backed stones when cutting longitudinally. More of the surface will be in contact with the edge.

2) You'll own many more DMTs over the life span of MoonFlexes (flex backed) or Maplus (rigid backed) diamonds, among others.

3) I'd suggest a 200 & 400 for sure, then next consider 100 then 600 if you need more cutting and then finer polishing. An Arkansas stone should be in your kit as well for de-burring, touch up and as a versatile pocket stone.

Here are 70 & 100mm Monnflex & Maplus diamonds:



FYI, Tools4Boards is out of Calgary.
post #3 of 20
KID CANUK, You will need the the gummi stone for some work but not for polishing after the diamond stones. The gummi is more for removing rust or de tuning work. Many just use the finer diamond stones for polishing and some use a ceramic or arkansa stone. The grit should be very fine. The final polishing step actually is supposed to make the edges harder and consequently last longer. Be sure to use a suitable liquid to wet the stones as you use them. I use a 50%water and 50% denatured alchohol mixture as a wetting solution. Some use other concoctions or comercial products. You can also use the wetting solution and an old tooth brush to clean the stones of residue.

Mark
post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the quality suggestions. I had suspected that the DMTs simply wouldn't last as long but I didn't know if I could get away with it. Theres a clear long term and short term solution there by the sounds of things.

I've also seen stones as high as 1500, overkill for a recreational skier?

In regards to the Gummi I figured that they had limited use but were still important, thank you for correcting my thinking.

Again I appreciate the input, I'd very much like to have the tools to do it myself but don't want to find out a week after I spent 100 bucks that I bought the wrong stuff.
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Canuck View Post
Thanks for the quality suggestions. I had suspected that the DMTs simply wouldn't last as long but I didn't know if I could get away with it. Theres a clear long term and short term solution there by the sounds of things.

I've also seen stones as high as 1500, overkill for a recreational skier?

In regards to the Gummi I figured that they had limited use but were still important, thank you for correcting my thinking.

Again I appreciate the input, I'd very much like to have the tools to do it myself but don't want to find out a week after I spent 100 bucks that I bought the wrong stuff.
You might look at some of these lists of tuning stuff. Some good suggestions here.http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=54065 I just bought a new iron and have an older one that works fine. I would be happy to send it to you to get you started. No charge, just pay the shipping. I bought it at Tognar which is a good source of tuning tools. Send me a pm if you are interested. Will be at the gathering and home again Tue. So let me know. Good tools can cost a bit but not as much as having a shop do maint. Besides it's fun!!!!!
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 

.

Wow, thats very generous offer, thank you. However, that is one of the few items that I already have covered (via a recently rediscovered iron).

Thanks for the heads up on that thread, I've been reading everything here fairly obsessively since I've found it and it has proved invaluable. Its a really refreshing change to find this extremely knowledgeable, matured and responsive forum amongst the usual lackluster internet rabble.
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Canuck View Post
Wow

Its a really refreshing change to find this extremely knowledgeable, matured and responsive forum amongst the usual lackluster internet rabble.

Now that's just damn insulting!!!!!!!: Glad that you could join in.
post #8 of 20
100, 200, 600 grits
or 100, 400, 600.
That is all you need.
1500, the first couple of runs after a tune
will take care of that grit.
I probably use 200 and 600 the most.
200 then 600 after filing.
And 600 after the side edge work on the base edge
to complete getting rid of hanging burr.
Always use water or alcohol/water mix for
lube, this suspends metal particles so they
are not being ground into the "stone" face.
prolonging the life. When my d. stones are not
on a guide or in my hand (i freehand the hanging burr away)
they are in a jar of alcohol/water with a toothbrush;
if you take care of your tools, they last longer.
MOONSTONE
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J View Post
When my d. stones are not
on a guide or in my hand (i freehand the hanging burr away)
they are in a jar of alcohol/water with a toothbrush;
ok, here's a REALLY naive question, not having spent any time with stones... I gather there is no risk of "saturating" or otherwise messing up the stones, by longterm soaking in liquid storage?

Thanks for this good thread.
post #10 of 20
Regarding stone cleaning. Keeping a sanding belt eraser & spray bottle with 50/50 mix handy is a convenient way to quickly lube & clean stones while 'in the mode'. For those with the T4B Terminator stands, the 1 1/2" eraser locks into the track very nicely. Scrubbing the eraser under water with soap and nylon brush keeps it clean.
post #11 of 20
The d. "stones" are in the mix during tuning.
when done, toothbrush them and dry.
I remember that some early Moonstones
would loosen from liquids, but that is not
a problem any longer.
Also, try to vary your stone position on edge
guides, so that you are not always using the
same "line" on the stone.
post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J View Post
The d. "stones" are in the mix during tuning.
when done, toothbrush them and dry.
aha. I read your prior post to suggest "in the jar until next time used"... like dentures or something. As I said, a naive question... thanks for humoring me.
post #13 of 20
I had a 70mm blue DMT stone. When it didn't seem to do anything any more I replaced it with two 100mm MoonFlexes, 200grit and 400grit. No comparison, the DMT is junk by comparison. Have sandwiches for dinner for a couple weeks to save the $$$ difference and buy the Moonflex. You will not regret it.
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 

.

I think thats about as clear as it gets. I'm very glad that I asked.
post #15 of 20
I forgot to mention that a 1 1/2" x 4" utility nylon brush (big toothbrush : ), complements the eraser and 50/50 spray bottle while keeping your stones and files clean, while doing edge work.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
I had a 70mm blue DMT stone. When it didn't seem to do anything any more I replaced it with two 100mm MoonFlexes, 200grit and 400grit. No comparison, the DMT is junk by comparison. Have sandwiches for dinner for a couple weeks to save the $$$ difference and buy the Moonflex. You will not regret it.
I wish I'd read this before buying that piece of crap DMT. I could get about 2 tunes out of it and now it feels smooth as silk. I will definitely be going with Moonflex next time around.
post #17 of 20
One way to test if a diamond is still useful is to scratch glass with it.
post #18 of 20
I've just replaced my 100, 200, 400 & 600 Moonflex's after using them on over 100 pairs of skis plus some boards. The 1500 still had plenty of life in it so I gave it to a mate.

My routine is always two overlapping passes & one full length pass with each stone, always using my own 'Easicut' diamond cutting fluid which is 50% denatured alcohol, 49% distilled water & 1% rust inhibitor.

A set of 5 Moonflex's sells for £80 in the UK so that works out at under £0.80p per tune - I reckon that's pretty good value for a high performance/quality product.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor D View Post
One way to test if a diamond is still useful is to scratch glass with it.
What are you looking for in the scratches to test it?
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
What are you looking for in the scratches to test it?
Probably just that are some (scratches, I mean).
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