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Longish Turns on Blue Corduroy - M/A - Page 6

post #151 of 154
Thread Starter 
I don't know about you guys, but if you were trying to decide if you want to go to the trouble of getting your hands up, wouldn't you want to make a few slow, long turns on a groomed intermediate run so you can see what's happening without distortion from variables like speed, terrain, snow?

Intent does too matter.

Apparently the position of my arms brought in some undesirables, such as over-rotation. As I told ssh, the airplane arms made me helicopter. Oops.

Anyway, that video really helped me find the middle position between airplane and cadaver.
post #152 of 154

There are many reasons for doing slow drills and exercises. I would say they are usually to isolate specific movement sequences that you want to nail down or perhaps for the mere sake of developing some new balance skills. Everything about balance changes as the speed increases. Everything about edging requirements changes. A lot changes at speed. I do not think there is any advantage in performing slow drills for the sake of MA; that will be useful. Its best to perform normal speed turns at the speed you normally ski when you're looking for MA.

After you have spotted potential areas for improvement, then perhaps there may be an opportunity to perform certain slow drills if there is a very specific and well thought out reason for why that drill needs to be slow. You don't want to just ski slow for the sake of skiing slow, like that will automatically be better in some way to learn that way. Some things have to be executed at the normal speed you ski, whatever that is.

In the case of where your hands are or what is happening with your upper body rotation, I don't think skiing slow to see what is happening is useful. You would be highly likely to change the way you are skiing at that speed. You might rotate more or less than you would at normal speed. Your sense of balance would be completely different. You mentioned avoiding distortion, but slowing down your skiing to look for these things will in fact be a big distortion in and of itself. Perhaps you have a specific reason that your drill needs to be slow to accomplish whatever learning task you were trying to do, but please explain more completely WHY it needs to be slow. Frankly, I do not perceive that this video is slower than you usually ski. So I would consider it a normal speed demo and excellent for MA purposes.

Secondly, I will repeat again what I said earlier and others have also corroborated. Your arm position did not bring in undesirable over-rotation. The other way around..... Your undesirable over-rotation is effecting your arm position. Raising your arms up higher has only made it perhaps more obvious by putting big neon lights on your helicoptering arms.

We would love to see some video where you make your turns without the rotation through one means or another. Several people have expressed great interest in this. I believe you can do it! I'm not sure why you are reluctant to accept these comments about your rotary and go try to work on it. Calling it "Rotary Vortex" implies a deep sense of cynicism about that MA that has been given. If that is your attitude, then we're wasting our breath on you. ??

In any case, if you feel the rotation is because of the hands or whatever theory you have for why this demo has the over-rotation present..if you have a plan for eradicating it, please do it and get back to us with the results. Maybe you know something we don't know and if so we'd all like to see it and hear about your experience.

good luck
post #153 of 154
I'm going to be presumptuous here and speak for people with no consent whatsoever. oops. Everyone that has posted in this thread that I know/believe I've read to have a racing background (doublediamond, heluva, reilly, rick, now me.. apologies if i've mischaracterized anyone) has claimed your skiing in the video is 'mellow'... to summarize politely.

I don't have any video taken on terrain as mellow as that in the video to put up or shut up (and since I live in skiing hell, I can't get any for you. Sorry.), but I can say categorically that any decent racer (say, under 175 pts) could make clean carved turns at the speed and radius of your turns with their slalom skis on, with any body position you wanted them to have. You are demonstrating technically clean, precise turns, and everyone with an instruction background has noted this. I believe the qualm that people (racers) have with the skiing they see is that there is no purpose behind the super-analysed technique. We believe that those turns don't require the technique you're demonstrating.

Yes, you claim you're just trying to keep your hands up... and we get that. You want to keep your hands up, and that was your only goal. At the same time, Heluva or doublediamond could have made those turns with hands up, down, left, right, wherever. I could video myself walking around my apartment with my hands up, and it would be only marginally less instructive; for a skier of your level, park and ride turns are not terribly helpful or interesting.

Finally, to address the notion that skiing has to be full of testosterone to be good... No, it certainly doesn't have to be full of testosterone; nobody's critisizing you for not hucking off of something in hte middle of the run, straightlining a narrow chute, or bashing bumps. However, skiing with high edge angles and upper-lower body separation is hardly 'testosterone filled'. Generating powerful arcs is not some young-men-only parlor trick. It is CERTAINLY higher level skiing, more exciting to watch, and more likely to bring out flaws in your technique than the low edge angle carving that you posted. Yes, skiing slowly can bring out technique flaws.... but if you really honestly think that 99% of good skiers can't make the turns demonstrated here, well, I feel way better about my skiing.

Ok, well, I haven't said all that I want to say, but I've been writing for too long anyway. I don't mean to offend anyone - I'm attempting to explain the position taken by many in this thread. If your sole goal in posting a video is to receive constructive criticism in what you already do well (ie. turns like hte ones you're demonstrating here), great. You've received it. The alternate perspective is that your skiing could be improved greatly from the video we saw (and I'm sure you have more dynamic skiing elsewhere); you've continued to dismiss these critiques outright and in a manner not dissimilar to Highway Star's. Food for thought.

post #154 of 154
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post
I have always been of the belief that if a movement will not hold up to a higher level turn, why use it as a crutch for a low level turn just because you can get away with it? I do believe in the value of implementing useful movements into easier turns with the intent to be able to use those movements in my skiing when I am performing higher energy turns... and not only that, but to be able to move flawlessly between the high energy and low energy turns while maintaining the same precision and correctness of movements.
Well said, and this concept lies at the heart of all good ski teaching.
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