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Marker free bindings come off/forward pressure

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
OK - I've been sitting on this info for a while not wanting to jump the gun, but there seems to be a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that the Marker free bindings just kind of - COME OFF - at the most inopportune times.

I guess I have to plead ignorance/poor research on this because I have since found some indications from the forums folks prefer Look, Rossi and others for this reason.

A few anecdotes

* Magic, Feb 14 - 28+ slightly windpacked snow, I lose a ski in a drift - huh, funny I normally power through that stuff. Must have been the windpack.

* SB - the Cirque, again hit a pow bump, off comes the ski, I slide helplessly 30 feet. Funny didn't feel like it was stuck, sure enough it's sitting on top of the snow when I retrieve it. Must be my technique.

* Alta - Ballroom - ski comes off. Huh - doesn't seem to happen normally I must be rusty. Then - under Collins lift - "Watch these turns guys..." whoops ski came off, my helmet tumbles down the trail about 100 yards.

Finally - light bulb goes off - WTF IS GOING ON?! Checked at Peruvian, DIN is correct BUT forwards pressure is not set correctly. Doesn't happen rest of the trip. "You need to check the screw setting sometimes they work themselves out. It needs to be flush with the boot inserted". Luckily it's been OK since, although I mention it to Strands (start suspecting they somehow might have "forgot" to set this little detail - I'm still BS about it).

* Woman at different ski shop yesterday with broken tib/fib mentions she was on a green trail with snow over the weekend and ski just "came off" resulting in cartwheel and multiple leg fractures. Oh yeah - funny thing is (not that having a broken leg is funny), was Marker bindings. But the DINs were right when they checked, must have been the forward pressure.

Am I blaming the wrong thing here or are these bindings an accident waiting to happen?! Do people actually check the setting on the trail with your boot on and adjust them? Do they work themselves out or was that a good cover for a bad adjustment? Do they get worse over time?

Thanks for any feedback and the chance to vent guys ....
post #2 of 26
If you search on TGR, you will find many such injury stories resulting from Marker pre-releases. I have not had issues with my Marker race bindings, but MANY others have. Unless you need them for a Marker WC plate, avoid them.
post #3 of 26
Hey, I've got Marker Free bindings. I've had one release that might have been a pre-release, but nothing conclusive. Could you be specific about what screw you're talking about so that I can make sure that it's as tight as it should be?
post #4 of 26
I had problems with older generation Markers, but none of the newer ones I have had any issues.
post #5 of 26
Unfortunately, your story is some what common. I have had the fwd pressure not set correctly by a shop. I now always check the fwd pressure myself after I get bindings mounted or checked regardless of brand.

BTW: I no longer buy markers. I've been putting tyrolias (mojo 15/FF17) or Looks on my new skis.

Just curious, is your binding a 12-din model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ct55 View Post
whoops ski came off, my helmet tumbles down the trail about 100 yards.
I would also get that helmet checked. It does not do much good when it comes off you head.
post #6 of 26
i have a pair of M42 bindigs that i've not had a problem with(knock on wood). i got them with my 1st set of skis on 99 and transfered them to my 2nd pair.

incidently, on my last trip a lady got a fractured fibula after falling forward. she had older marker bindings. could be just bad luck or happenstance but her heel piece did not release on the affected leg.
post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestEast View Post
Hey, I've got Marker Free bindings. I've had one release that might have been a pre-release, but nothing conclusive. Could you be specific about what screw you're talking about so that I can make sure that it's as tight as it should be?
see pic. Note the check must been done with the boot in the binding.
525x525px-LL-vbattach1443.jpg
post #8 of 26

forward pressure screw

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormDay View Post
see pic. Note the check must been done with the boot in the binding.
Great visual! I wish I woulda had that a few months ago.

Just so WestEast is clear, the conventional wisdom (by which I mean whatever I've been able to conclude from MANY searches on this topic...) is that the forward pressure screw should be checked with boot in binding (per StormDay), then adjusted with boot out of binding, checked again with boot in, etc. Each counterclockwise click will ratchet the heel piece toward the toe. What you're aiming for (again, based on collective Bear input across many posts) is for screw to be flush with housing, or perhaps 1-2 clicks deeper.

And my experience confirms what others have noted... shops may ignore forward pressure settings.
post #9 of 26
I gave up on Markers a few years ago. Until then most of my skis were very stiff and I didn't have any problems. Once I started buying softer skis that flexed more in the middle I started having problems blowing out of the heels when skiing in deep or heavy crud. People suggested I crank up the DIN but I didn't like that solution especially since my Look/Rossis never blow out and my Salomons rarely do. The only pair of skis I own that still have Markers on them are my Volkl Superspeeds which are stiff and also have the Marker Piston bindings where the bindings float on a track which seems to help prevent them from prereleasing.
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
yes these were new Marker Free 12.0s (no piston or rail or whatever). It is the screw mentioned in the pic. The tech did what you said - tightened them down without the boot, removed them then repeated until they were about flush or a mm "in". The boot moved noticeably towards the front when this happened, suggesting they were "back" a bit.

To be fair, it hasn't happened since I had it torqued down properly and I skied 2+ feet the other day, plowing through tons of light stuff. BUT I also don't have that confident feeling anymore like I did with my old Tyrolia setup on my previous skis.

I'll see how things go in the upcoming spring corn before I pass judgement (hopefully in one piece!)

wrt helmet - brain cramp there, forgot to strap in!
post #11 of 26
Be careful in the corn- the heavy stuff is where Ive seen many many premature ejectulations out of the Volkl/Marker combination. The skinny skis hit crud/corn/heavy snow at a decent clip and it seems like the binding just gives up. Juice the DIN up quite a bit and you may be ok, but I avoid Markers now.
post #12 of 26
This wouldn't be the first time I have heard of Marker pre-releases mentioned in the same sentence as improperly set forward pressure. I don't know if it's typically connected, but it seems to happen a lot. I know one guy whose heel piece eventually worked backwards over time because the forward pressure was not set properly to begin with (it was too loose -- he adjusted the bindings for new boots and did not know about the forward pressure check). Apparently if there is not enough tension on the screw, the heel piece can rattle itself even looser over time.
post #13 of 26
Shoot, too late to edit. The screwdriver holder would've figured this out soon enough, but just so I don't contribute to even looser bindings and more premature ejects...

I meant to say "each CLOCKWISE click will rachet the heel piece toward the toe."

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKN View Post
Great visual! I wish I woulda had that a few months ago.

Just so WestEast is clear, the conventional wisdom (by which I mean whatever I've been able to conclude from MANY searches on this topic...) is that the forward pressure screw should be checked with boot in binding (per StormDay), then adjusted with boot out of binding, checked again with boot in, etc. Each counterclockwise click will ratchet the heel piece toward the toe. What you're aiming for (again, based on collective Bear input across many posts) is for screw to be flush with housing, or perhaps 1-2 clicks deeper.

And my experience confirms what others have noted... shops may ignore forward pressure settings.
post #14 of 26
Friends don't let friends ski Marker bindings
post #15 of 26
Any binding could be set wrong.

This year I amon two generations of Marker bindings 1400 and 14.0, VIST bindings, Look P15 and 18s and PX bindings and Salomon 9something Ti. All things considered I prefer the Markers.
post #16 of 26
Your binding were not teched properly and acted accordingly. The brand of binding had nothing to do with it.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tief schnee View Post
Your binding were not teched properly and acted accordingly. The brand of binding had nothing to do with it.
That gets to a thorny issue. One of the reasons I decided to stop using Marker was because of a discussion I had with a ski shop owner that diligently checks every binding he mounts with Vermont equipment. He said that Look bindings often test out high when set to the suggested DIN, Salomons test out about right or a little low and Markers test out much lower. Since he isn't indemnified if he sets the DIN higher than suggested on Markers he doesn't suggest them to his customers except on Volkl skis with binding systems. (For Looks and Rossi bindings he sets the DIN lower which irks some of his customers but I never have been disappointed with his settings on my skis.)
post #18 of 26
Werent a few of the women's falls during 06 Olympics all due to prerelease on Marker bindings? Not trying to spread misinformation, but I seem to recall that.
post #19 of 26
I've only ever had two bindings pre release on me. One was an old Marker twin cam 46, but it was well past it's best before date. The ski binding just let go when I went over a couple of icy bumps at moderate speed (about 35 mph). The other was a marker on a pair of demo skis that kept releasing for no reason until I took them back to the shop an hour later. I cannot blame forward pressure for my pre-releases, but the bindings could have been trashed. Still, I have never had a Tyrolia or Salomon pre-release. I ski aggressively and do not crank up the DIN.
post #20 of 26
I know that Markers of a certain vintage have there issues, but a poorly adjusted binding acted like a poorly adjusted binding.

Are these bindings crap? Did the forward pressure back off on its own? Who knows. We don't even know if it was set right the first time.


Hell even a Burt III (was there a I and II?) needs to be teched right.
post #21 of 26
I run Marker 20.0 bindings on my race skis and I just accept that fact that they need to be run at a few DIN setting higher than other bindings; otherwise, I don't finish races with my skis on. And it's not just me either. There's a reason that Marker makes a 30 DIN race binding...
post #22 of 26

Salomon Demo bindings prerelease

I have had the same problem with two different sets of
Salomon demo bindings. One was set by a demo shop,
the other I set via Salomon recommended manual. The
binding had a DIN of 12, I set it at 8.

I popped out both in moguls and smooth steeps.

When a ski goes into compression between moguls the
heal binding has to move backwards on the track. If
dirt gets onto the track and the heal does not return
right away after releasing from the moguls, the boot
heal may come out of the binding. Keep the track
clean and lubricated.
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by t1henderson View Post
I have had the same problem with two different sets of
Salomon demo bindings. One was set by a demo shop,
the other I set via Salomon recommended manual. The
binding had a DIN of 12, I set it at 8.

I popped out both in moguls and smooth steeps.

When a ski goes into compression between moguls the
heal binding has to move backwards on the track. If
dirt gets onto the track and the heal does not return
right away after releasing from the moguls, the boot
heal may come out of the binding. Keep the track
clean and lubricated.
The issue you described is also what happens when a Marker binding has too much forward pressure. If the binding can't move back as the ski flexes, the heel has to release.
post #24 of 26
I don't doubt that this happens. In fact, I have seen it happen more times than I can count. But I have never seen it happen on a binding that had more than a 12 din.

I should also add that I raced on Salomons instead of Marker for a season after getting a sponsorship. I had the s900 back then. I pre-released in three GS races. One at my home hill that I was in second in after the first run, one in an important sectional race, and one other time. So I have no faith in Solly either.

I have skied 1400 comp bindings as long as they have been out and never once had a problem. I also have a pair of 1800's and a pair of 18.0 (same binding dif. paint job) and those things are bomber.

I really would like to hear if anyone has had problems with the 1400 bindings. I cannot imagine anyone has with the 18.0, 20.0 or 30.0

If the old turntable Looks were not getting harder to find I would buy some for my LINE Prophets. But I already have 18.0's. I think they will do me just fine.
post #25 of 26
I have Marker 1200 pistons on both of my skis (atomic, stockli) and knock on wood no pre-releases. Of course now I have just jinxed myself.
post #26 of 26
I find that forward pressure is probably the most neglected component of binding adjustment. I always have to double-check it when I rent skis. As for the prerelease on Markers: different binding have different tolerance to prerelease, but none should pre-release if they are properly adjusted. The binding technology is pretty mature by now, so you should expect every binding to work well.

For the record- I skied on Marker binding for years, and now I am 100% on Look/Rossi. The switch was not because I stopped liking Marker, but because my skis are Dynastar and Rossignol. Given a free shoice now I would still choose Look because I like the ability to put the binding on in powder without stomping and I like the slick toepiece. However, I won't hesitate to ski on Markers provided they are properly adjusted.

Alex

P.S. A distinct trait of Marker toepiece design is that you don't feel that your foot is displaced in the binding untill the very moment it pops out, so the prerelease would feel very sudden while other bindings may give you more "advance notice". The upside is that in Markers you ten not to be bothered by "near misses".
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