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Alignment xperience with Mosh's SBS System - Page 2

post #31 of 36

Great illustrations!, thanks for that link. I want some of these illustrations for my walls!

post #32 of 36
Thread Starter 
Thanks Bud,

It seems clear from your participation and contributions with Epic website and events and your own website (www.snowind.com) that you are someone who wants to demystify alignment for skiers. Along that line I will step up on a soapbox for a moment.

Personally, I think that skiers should understand alignment well enough to understand approaches for making footbeds, adjusting ramp angle, adjusting forward lean, cuff adjustment, both internal and external canting, and binding mount location. Bootfitters and alignment specialist use very different "models" in helping a skier set up these various parameters. I believe that it is extremely helpful for a skier to at least understand (if not explore) these various models.

Out of this point of view has developed my tendency to want to take control of alignment for myself. Unfortunately, there is not a simple way to do this given the current state of ski technology. That's one of the reasons I was willing to try the SBS system even though I was skeptical. Mosh's SBS approach allows for home assessment (although his shop assessment system is much easier to use and more accurate), relatively inexpensive, do-it-yourself changes in the degree of cant you employ, and total reversibility.

Thanks to my reading I am well aware that in trying to use internal canting I've changed my ankle/foot alignment so I am on the lookout for effects (negative and positive) from this. I also have the ability to check knee tracking at home to see how much change there's been from this internal canting and then think about whether I want to still employ some external boot sole canting based on both at-home testing and on-hill testing with temporary wedges on-slope. I haven't got to the at-home re-evaluation yet but I hope to before I store my boots and skis for the summer.

I think it would be great to put together a full review of alignment methods and models, although who would have the time and energy to do this, I wonder? You use a pretty traditional, well established (I would also think very effective) approach in your alignment procedures, including, it seems, some novel things you've developed for yourself. Harb also uses a fairly traditional approach in terms of boot canting but, in his making of footbeds, includes measurements of foot and ankle movement ranges in order to maximize someone's use of their range of motion. He also believes in some footbed compliance to permit some foot movement for tipping. Mosh uses a pretty simple model and a unique evaluation system (for measuring foot balance) that is in at least partial conflict with a number of approaches used in footbed/posting/bootplate setup but from which he seems to get pretty good results. Steve Bagley (Snowbird) uses a Tekscan pressure evaluation system to set up footbeds and boot cuff alignment and claims he can usually get someone well balanced between those two (to my understanding). He also offers a Campbell balancer for setting binding mount location (certainly related to alignment and balancing for/aft balance and ski control).

My apologies if I have inaccurately represented some of these approaches but the point I am trying to make is about the diversity of approaches out there. I don't think the information is easily available to skiers to simply understand the basis for these varied approaches and I think that a proper review of these would be an important step. Without such an understanding I think it is much less likely that a skier can find good alignment for themselves, having to rely (and pay) an expert to do it for them, usually without a lot of the skier's input. While this certainly can work, the alternative of a skier working hand-in-hand with an alignment specialist (or doing it on their own if more appropriate technology were available) seems like the better way.
post #33 of 36
Good post Si, and I think you have good points here. This is one of the reasons I am very excited to be opening a boot only shop slopeside next season. We will be able to quickly access the slopes to evaluate any changes for instant feedback and adjustments.

While I understand the theory behind gizmos like the Campbell balancer (which does not take into consideration the delta angle the binding creates) and the SBS balancer machine which offers a very visual and sensory distinction, and the Tek Scan which offers nice graphics and information that can be used a multitude of different ways, I am sure blanket statements stating these methods individually are THE answer to alignment issues are not true. As well taking and recording many measurements of foot and ankle ranges of motion and angles all looks impressive but the bottom line is how well the footbed is made to support and manage the foot. After all these measurements are taken the foot is held in neutral and placed on the pillows or whatever medium is used and an impression taken then posted accordingly. I have observed many different experts make footbeds and we all make them pretty much the same way though some are into dog and pony shows and some are not.

The more educated the consumer is about these processes the better, but very few care to learn all the nuances of alignment before reaping the benefits.

post #34 of 36
Ok, I am finnaly back on line and ready for questions. I know there will be some to answer. So lets have em. Small computer melt down. Back on line with a mac and raring to go.
post #35 of 36
Thread Starter 
Welcome back Mosh,

Here are a couple of questions I personally would like to hear from you on:

Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

Could the same thing have been accomplished with some forefoot varus built into the footbed?

Have you ever tried this with your footbeds?

A second question: If you get the foot "balanced" and the knee is still tracking in or out do you find value in boot sole canting?

Thanks, Si
post #36 of 36
Yes essentialy fore foot varus posting will do similar things the question is how much to use. Like you found out it is all about using the correct amount to get it right.

As to the second question will the knee continue to track inward or outward would I consider using external canting? Yes but if the knee is still tracking outward I would assume that the foot is not yet correct. Rotational knee tracking is a direct symptom of pronation and suppination. So if there is rotation in the knee it is probably coming from the foot. However, if the knee tracks well on the foot bed or shim and when the boot is added to the picture the knee starts rotating it may be coming from how the cuff is working with the tibia. Atomic is famous for this because it has more of a rotational flex patern. It is very much a case by case deal.
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