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MA request short radius turns...not me.

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
You guys should like this. Whats do you guys think can be done here? to improve his skiing.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...d=15321 08316

more from this kid soon.
post #2 of 28
Bush,

I like some of the angles. Also looks like a little PMTS inside ski lift and tipping. Kind of a strange technique for Snowbird. Nonetheless, it's nice skiing. I do like the playful turns with the little hops and pops.

You can see the weight in the backseat as the skier goes by the camera. I'd like to see more pressure on the ski tips earlier in the turn. I'd also like to see the stance width a little wider apart to help get higher edge angles. As the skier goes by the camera, he starts to bend at the waist more than he should be. Before the camera, above the waist generally stays in a tall stance. It's hard to tell from this clip, but it looks like the initiation is an up move. We certainly don't see much collapsing of the inside leg relative the outside leg. I'd like to see some hip movement driving more leg length change.

Just my 2 cents.....
post #3 of 28
I like his turns period.

b
post #4 of 28
I also think those were some fine turns. This guy can definitely ski.
post #5 of 28
Nice, fun, energetic turns.

In a couple of spots you can see the common issue of holding onto the old stance ski while moving to the new stance ski and the resulting stem. An earlier and more active inside foot would address that (tip the stance foot as you release the turn).

Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
I'd also like to see the stance width a little wider apart to help get higher edge angles.
Horizontal stance width has little to do with higher edge angles if you are developing them properly. I'm not saying a bit wider would hurt but to get higher angles pulling the inside foot up will yield the vertical separation needed to move the inside foot out of the way for higher angles.
post #6 of 28
yea, me too bud. Great turns!

Totally functional stance. I saw early edge engagement. I did not see powder snow, regardless of the fact that it was snowbird, so I'm not sure what to say about that comment Rusty. they have snow you can carve on in Utah too. Totally functional edge angles. Nice cross over. Great skiing.

Everyone has something to work on, so nit picking here, a few times he was inclinated a bit much and not angulated much, particularly in the start of the turn. So if I were coaching this guy I would work a little bit on developing earlier counter and angulation. I see ever so slightly a shoulder pull he is using here and there, also, in the start of the turn. If I had to put my finger on it, I would say he is trying to avoid a blatant up-unweight, but its still there very subtle. But the thing is, he has not replaced his up-unweight with a truly effective release mechanism. so the slight shoulder pull or anticipation he is using at the top of every turn is to compensate for that. Its very subtle because his release is almost there. Could be better though.

I would work on developing a better release at transition and as that is improved, focus on avoiding the shoulder pull through maintaining a strong inside arm from the top of the turn to the bottom.

nice skiing though! Looks like he's having fun which is the most important thing.
post #7 of 28
Yea max, you beat me, but it sounds like you saw the same thing. I did notice a VERY subtle ab-stem a few times also.

I agree with you about the stance width, I would not change a thing about the stance width. It was completely functional for this skiing situation.
post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 
give it a day or 2 and I will get you some more recent footage.

the slope he is on is never groomered but is never really bumpy either it is allways somewhere in between.

The skier you are looking at is PSIA L3 and aussie (well whatever their cert is) L2. Missed demo team this year and will try again anyones opinion (that is quailfied) matters to him. at demo team a common theme was to tone it down...

thanks
post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
at demo team a common theme was to tone it down...
Given Nick's high energy skiing isn't that a surprise?
post #10 of 28
He skis like one of those rare birds, a natural. Every turn is different, as he feels something different through the snow. he is not skiing any one system or style, but just going with it. In order to please APSI, PSIA, and the Demo Team mob, he has to show them the moves that they are looking for at the time, rather than just joyful, natural, athletic skiing. Which is what he's showing in this video.

I'd love to ski like him.
post #11 of 28
at demo team a common theme was to tone it down...

It is sad to see so much emphasis on being connected to the snow for increased efficiency (which I am sure is what they mean). Sure it is great for people who are not in shape, but why keep this man down?

Of course, he has to demonstrate that he can do that when necessary, which I suspect he can do anytime.
post #12 of 28
Beautiful turns, bends the ski nicely, stays in the fall line, stays with the turn.

Rebound or hop? I see some hop. Picky, picky and who am I to say!
post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 
ant has seen him in person and can attest that this video is actually on maybe a 7 or 8 on his scale of skiing.
post #14 of 28
He's a natural. He feels the snow and the skis. You should see him on a race course, it's scary.
post #15 of 28
Hey, all a ya all, need your thoughts on the comments about abstemming or stemming, or "A" frame that is noted in these turns or many high performance turns for that matter....

It seems to me that some times we take this idea of parallel leg shafts a bit to far. I mean when you are skiing fast, in an effort to stay connected to the snow, I think it is functional to see a slight "A" frame at transitions sometimes. I know I see this in many great skiers' transitions. It seems that in anticipation of the edge change , by hanging on to the old downhill ski a bit longer while simultaneously moving to engage the new outside ski, a slight "A" frame may appear.

I noticed in my tracks after skiing some turns on fresh corduroy under the chairlift line and riding the chair back up, that in the transitions that felt silky smooth, the inside edge of the outside ski looked to transition in an uninterrupted line into the track of the inside edge of the new outside ski. When making less dynamic turns I see parallel tracks at transition but when I turn it up a bit I see the above pattern which I believe can not be made without a slight "A" frame appearing in the skiing? Your thoughts?....

b
post #16 of 28
Bud,

If you want to hear an excuse for ab-stemming, you're not going to hear it from me.

That being said, I don't think its necessary to be all anal about A-frame. A-frame can be caused by different factors. It can be caused by boot alignment most often. It can be caused by knee angulation, and maybe knee angulation is needed sometimes. Or maybe they need to work on their hip angulation skills. Most often boot alignment is the culprit for a skier at this level unless you are looking at the one frame of video where his skis are just about flat at transition and you can spot that he's on both BTE's.

A better tell-tale sign of the ab-stem push off is when you see a reliance on up-unweighting. If they have to up-unweight, then it means they did not transition as effectively as they could have using a release. If they transition well, their CoM will be inside of the new turn and their skis will be diverging away to the outside, losing weight by the nanosecond. But that does not happen if they block it from happening with their downhill ski BTE. If the downhill BTE releases before or simultaneously with edging the new outside BTE, then The CoM will be flowing through into the new turn as it should be and no up-unweight will be necessary or desirable.

Now all that being said, there are lots of absolutely fantastic skiers that up-unweight all over the place. Hell, I'll confess I do it sometimes because its just fun to go totally weightless, make a big snow spray, etc.. Its not always about perfect turns. Or perhaps you use a lot of ILE to make your transition, and maybe just a tiny bit too much one time, resulting in a bit of up-unweight you didn't plan on. (shrug)..it happens even to the best. And sometimes its just fun to let things loose and jump around and feel all that energy. Fun.

However, those turns are not the most efficient possible or the smoothest. They are harder on the body and require more athleticism in general. You would not win any races that way either and if I were the judge, would not get you on the PSIA demo team. FWIW.

I'm speaking theoretically now, not about the skier in the video that someone posted for "MA" He looks to be a fantastic skier. Like all fantastic skiers, there is always something more to work on. His up-unweight is very slight and possibly he was just having fun in the moment. I have little doubt that in an afternoon of coaching he could clean that up.

cheers
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Originally Posted by therusty
I'd also like to see the stance width a little wider apart to help get higher edge angles.

Horizontal stance width has little to do with higher edge angles if you are developing them properly. I'm not saying a bit wider would hurt but to get higher angles pulling the inside foot up will yield the vertical separation needed to move the inside foot out of the way for higher angles.
Yes Max, I am well aware of this point of view and this approach for getting higher edge angles. I disagree with the premise that his approach is a more effective teaching method for an online forum posting. But that's the beauty of it all, people can take or leave any advice offered and they're getting no less than what they paid for it. There are many ways to skin a cat. I stand by my recommendation.
post #18 of 28
This is why I am down on PSIA. A guy like this can't make the demo team and yet he is skiing better than any video I have seen posted of current demo teamers.
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Yes Max, I am well aware of this point of view and this approach for getting higher edge angles. I disagree with the premise that his approach is a more effective teaching method ...... There are many ways to skin a cat. I stand by my recommendation.
Rusty,

Perhaps you can explain to me and others how a wide stance would achieve higher edge angles?

I can't think of a single way that would help that. In fact, it gets in the way of higher edge angles.

In any case, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the stance width of this skier. Completely functonal, and so were his edge angles as far as I'm concerned.
post #20 of 28
B2ski683,

I did not see any abstems or stems in this guys skiing. I was referring to the idea of comments about a slight "A" frame caused, not by misalignments or stemming movements but simply ending one turn while simultaneously beginning another which is evidenced by an "A" frame. Perhaps we should start a thread on this topic.


volklskier1,
So say you in your infinite wisdom with little to back it up! When you get the phone call requesting your services as a D team selector let us know...
Making the D team is about more than ten turns on a video but then how would you know?...

b
post #21 of 28

Thats me

Hey thats me in the video... I cant believe he put that video up here... i just made a little video after work 2 days ago, i started a new thread, so have a look in there... some MA would be good from you guys...
Peace
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
B2ski683,

volklskier1,
So say you in your infinite wisdom with little to back it up! When you get the phone call requesting your services as a D team selector let us know...
Making the D team is about more than ten turns on a video but then how would you know?...

b
Bud, you're so bitter. Are you wearing a respirator when you're working? What are you angling for within PSIA? I'm backing it up with the videos that we've seen posted.

The D team is the height of PSIA politics. It's not about the skiing. This video proves it. It should be about turns but then that would make it too objective. Instead they include a bunch of indoor presentation nonsense. "tone it down" what a comment. If it had been a few years ago it would have been "widen your stance".

I haven't been keeping track but for years we were in the Vail phase of the D team with obi wan running the show. Now we seem to have moved to the Aspen phase. Of course you have to take 1 guy from the east every selection and sprinkle in some other divisions to round it out.
post #23 of 28
Bud, Volklskier knows obi wan so he must be an insider under deep cover here at epicski.

Reilly, I see nothing but a well balanced, fun run through the bumps.

I didn't know Australian citizens could qualify for the PSIA Demo Team...
post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
Bud, you're so bitter. Are you wearing a respirator when you're working? What are you angling for within PSIA? I'm backing it up with the videos that we've seen posted.

The D team is the height of PSIA politics. It's not about the skiing. This video proves it. It should be about turns but then that would make it too objective. Instead they include a bunch of indoor presentation nonsense. "tone it down" what a comment. If it had been a few years ago it would have been "widen your stance".

I haven't been keeping track but for years we were in the Vail phase of the D team with obi wan running the show. Now we seem to have moved to the Aspen phase. Of course you have to take 1 guy from the east every selection and sprinkle in some other divisions to round it out.
As a a dues paying member and one who knows people who have failed their indoor presentation all I can say is it should weigh heavily towards teaching and coaching. That is their role, and that is what I want from them. If you are not keeping track, then why bother posting about it?
post #25 of 28
If I remember correctly, and they still do the try outs the same, the first two days is a skiing try out. Pass that and it gets you in the door for the rest of the selection process which includes silly things like communication skills and understanding of mechanics and methodolgy. Conscious Competence stuff that may demonstrate the ability to actually teach someone how to ski.

b
post #26 of 28
I have citizenship in aus and here... but i do believe you have to be a citizen...

R
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Rusty,

Perhaps you can explain to me and others how a wide stance would achieve higher edge angles?

I can't think of a single way that would help that. In fact, it gets in the way of higher edge angles.

In any case, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the stance width of this skier. Completely functonal, and so were his edge angles as far as I'm concerned.
Excellent points BTS! It's nice to see folks paying attention and calling me on the details. That's what I get for trying to shorten my posts, eh?

Please note that I did not advocate a "wide stance". I said "a little wider" stance. A normal adjustment for mogul skiing is a narrower stance. I suspect that Reilly is making this adjustment in this clip. But the bumps here are small and the snow is "quiet". It's my opinion that less of an adjustment is necessary. I agree that a wider stance will not cause higher edge angles. But I was not explaining technical details, I was providing teaching direction and I said "help" not "cause". It is my belief that a focus on a little wider stance and a focus on achieving higher edge angles (i.e. intent) was all that was necessary to achieve higher edge angles and increased ski performance. Some people need to be told to lift toes, roll ankles, tip knees, etc. to get higher edge angles, but many high level skiers can just do it if you ask them to. It is my opinion that the difference in performance provides feedback to the skier. It's the increased feedback from a wider stance that "provides" the help for higher edge angles. If you just do it and you get more feedback, you will be more inclined to keep doing it. That's my thinking and anyone and everyone is invited to call it pure bunk.

Anyone who has successfully done cowboy turns knows from experience that an excessively wide stance does not prevent high edge angles. Anyone who has not been successful will truly know how a wide stance can block edge changes.

I also agree that there is nothing "wrong" with Reilly's skiing, stance width or edge angles. Bush asked for improvement ideas. I gave mine. I'll be shocked if there aren't many totally different suggestions, including some that are completely contradictory. There are many ways to skin a cat. Just because methods appear to be completely contradictory does not necessarily preclude the possibility of both methods being successful. Alas, there's no way to prove this opinion either.
post #28 of 28
Looks just like how I TRY to ski...
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