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Tools4Boards Razor.. Review

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
I recently purchased a T4B Razor Multi-tool. I finally got to use it to tune up some skis on Monday, and figured I'd give my impressions on it.

The Razor is built very sturdy... I've used a couple other multi-tools in the same price range, and they seemed cheaply made and didn't have as much versatility. The Razor has the ability to bevel side edge (0,1,2,3,4,5, and 6 degrees) and base edge angles (0,0.5,1,1.5,2,2.5, and 3 degrees). You change the angle by switching in pegs of different lengths.

The pegs, at first, were hard to pull out, especially with wet hands. As I changed them, though, they got easier to remove. I hope this trend doesn't continue to a point where they won't stay in...

Before I started tuning, I tried to see which of my stones the Razor would accomodate. Unfortunately, my arkansas (SVST in leather pouch) and ceramic stones will not fit. So, I'm left with my diamond stones.. I'm going to attempt to find a way to grind down my arkansas and ceramic stones by about 1mm so they will fit, but that's a whole different issue.

So.. the tuning begins... I inserted the included file on the very course (panzer?) side, set the side edge angle on the Razor to 6 degrees by inserting the black peg in the appropriate location and trimmed back the sidewall.. It worked very well with very little pressure. You DON'T want to use too much pressure, or you will start tearing at the edge... I took a couple slivers off, but it shouldn't make a different since it didn't change the edge angle (it just took the sliver off up close to the sidewall). Two runs with gentle pressure down each edge and the job was done... Next to the stones...

I already had my angles set on my skis, but due to some (assumed) inaccuracy, I started with a 100 grit diamond stone. Wet the stone, put it in, change pegs, and you're ready. I ran 6 short overlapping strokes, then 1 stroke full length. Changed to the 400 grit, same thing. Changed to the 1500 Grit, and ran it down full length about 4 times. Result: nice sharp edges.

Finally, I ran a ceramic stone down freehand with very light pressure, which seemed to have a positive effect.

Pros and Cons....

- Comfortable
- Easy to change tooks and angles
- Strudy
- Seems to be very accurate (for a multi-tool : )

- Has a central point where pressure must be applied. If you pressuure outside of that area, the tool will tip.
- Would not fit my Arkansas and Ceramic stones.

I am by no means a professional tuner (heck, I don't even use vices, I cradle the skis in my lap in my little 1 bedroom apartment). I am just a recreational tuner looking for a good tune. I started with a DaKine tuning kit and have just been adding to it. If I get more serious, I may consider some exact angle guides, or maybe some vices

I have not had the chance to ride the skis yet, but by looking I can say that it's likely the best tune they've ever had since in my possession.

Now to come up with a way to get my arkansas and ceramics to fit in the tool......
post #2 of 26
Great review! I use the same tool and have had very positive results with it. I've had it for about 1.5 years now and the pegs have not become so flimsy that they won't stay in the holes. Great multi-tool.
post #3 of 26
The T4B Razor is one of the excellent tools which I recently purchased from Alpinord. I used it to trim the sidewall with a short panzer file Terry sells. You could probably use it as a scraper sharpener too.

I found that my small DMT stones will fit and will use it for polishing the edges as necessary.

I didn't use it to set edge angles or base bevel since I bought other tools from Slidewright for that. I have to say that Terry's support and customer is superb and the products he offers are first rate.

post #4 of 26

Glad I'm not the only one thinking the Razor is a decent multi-tool. Thanks for the review and stoke.

Hydrogen_wv, I just use a file and progressive diamonds in mine and light polishing by hand with the Arkansas by hand. Before that I use an aluminum oxide by hand also to knock down major burrs and case hardened sections. How have you been using your ceramics and Arkansas stones in guides? I'll just send you an aluminum oxide stone if you want.

The pegs are still snug after two years for me. Replacements are available if ever it becomes necessary.

FWIW, comparing my aluminum guides with the Razor and Xact, I cannot discern any difference in angle accuracy.

Edited by Alpinord - 9/23/11 at 8:37am
post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
I have an alum-ox stone, but decided on a gummi for initial run over it since the burrs and nicks weren't bad...

I freehanded afterward with the ceramic, and it had no noticable negative effects, so i'm not terribly worried.... If I can find a way to grind the stone to get it to fit while still maintaining it's shape (no angles, uneven, etc..) I will, if not, I'll deal with what I have.

I was too scared to freehand with the arkansas, because I know it is more on the course side than a 1500grit diamond stone (right?)

I've never used a stone in a guide until I got the razor... everything freehand.. the results were not to shabby either.

The only issue I have is that some short, random areas (about 2-3 per edge about 1" long) do not pass the fingernail test... they are, for some reason, duller than the rest of the edge.. I can't think of any reason why... any ideas?
post #6 of 26
WAG: Sounds like there may be some low spots on the edges or there were some pressure inconsistencies while cutting and polishing (especially on your lap or floor). Using vises would help to minimize them. Another thought, maybe a few more strokes with the 100 grit or fine file would have evened out the edges. Sounds like a minor issue though. Good to hear you are getting positive results and the next go around they'll be even better.

FYI, a panzer is a curved tooth file:

The two-faced file has coarse teeth on one side and fine teeth on the other.

post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Ok.. wasn't sure on that one...

Yeah, I went light with the 100 grit, and probably should have made a couple more laps with it.... my edges before the Razor were pretty good, but were no way 100% consistent... I think those may have been low spots from previous tuning. I'll run the 100 grit over them again next time I tune and that should help out..

The course teeth of the file worked fine for sidewall removal.

My gf has been wanting me to sharpen up her Metrons, but I refuse to until I can get a more consistent tune... her dad sharpens them, I wax them...
post #8 of 26
FWIW, speaking of vices...I was working on my skis suspended between paint buckets, arms of the couch, etc. I got Alpinord's cinch vice this year for a surprising low price. Made a world of difference. If you are still working on your skis held on your lap or by hand, treat yourself to one.
post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 
Does this fold up for convenient storage? I share a 1 bedroom apt. with my gf and we have VERY little room... If it does, I might consider it...

Does it just make it easier, or does it result in a much better tune, also?
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
Nevermind.. I thought the vice/stand was all one item... I don't have nearly $200 to spend... I might consider it for next season.... How compact does the stand that they use fold? I don't have a table that I can use the vices with.
post #11 of 26

FTR, the Cinch is separate from the Terminator tuning stand and can clamp to any bench or table....or integrates very nicely (as designed) with the extruded aluminum tracks of the stand. More accessories for the stand are in the works for next year. (FTR, It lists for $79. The $200 is the Cinch & Terminator excellent value.) You'll save tons of time and get better results securing your skis. With the Cinch you can wax, scrape (to a point) and perform many tasks to to skis at once (or a snowboard).

Here's a web page on the Cinch.

The stand folds to a 54" x 6" size and weighs 14 lbs or so. You can toss it in your car, roof carrier, rack or ski bag for trips.

I forgot to include the Razor instructions previously and image.

(Cirquerider, glad it's working well for you as well.)

Edited by Alpinord - 9/23/11 at 8:39am
post #12 of 26
The cinch vice can be clamped to a deck railing or pretty much any table. It stores in no space at all. The vice holds skis base up, or side edge up securely, and frankly, it works for more than skis. It can give you a working platform and hold-down for sanding or woodworking if you need that. Use a'll never go back.
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Are the clamps padded to keep from damaging the table surface? I can't damage furniture in my apartment...
post #14 of 26
The Cinch base is polycarbonate and the clamps metal. A dense rubber or other method of protecting the furniture is definitely recommended ...... otherwise your GF will neuter you.
post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Aplinord - Not girlfriend... landlord... The apartment came furnished.

I had a great time this weekendand got to use my newly tuned skis for the first time on Sunday. I doubt that any of this is a 'placebo effect' because, basically, I forgot that I tuned them until I was just thinking about it today. So, I didn't really focus on the improvements, but I recall a few things...

1. The edges held better... I posted about 'chatter' a couple weeks ago, and I noticed that there was not as much of it... I doubt it was a change in technique, because I doubt my technique changed drastically.

2. I was able to make shorter radius turns much easier.... MUCH easier..

3. Edge hold on ice was much better... as expected.

#1 makes sense to me because i'm sure I have much sharper edges that are more consistent, #3 was expected, but #2 was a huge surprise... I guess there could have been a slight change in my technique (not intentionally), but it seems unlikely... can a good tune effect the ability to perform short radius turns...?
post #16 of 26
Originally Posted by hydrogen_wv View Post
can a good tune effect the ability to perform short radius turns...?
Apparently so. Glad to hear you're seeing the difference......and it really wasn't that hard for you to achieve a good tune doing it yourself.
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Yeah... Next season I will get a stand and some Vices (maybe this season... how long do you sell your tuning equipment? year round?) and I will experiment a bit, since I will likely be buying a new set of carvers about mid-season next year if all goes as planned.

I sharpened up the skis again yesterday, and I think I found one issue, but it doesn't make sense.... I've tried different methods of getting the wax off of the edges, and I think using the plastic scraper is dulling them a bit. I'm still not able to get the skis to the sharpness of a normal brand new ski (I'm not sure why either), but I'm coming closer.

My progression this time was this...
- Red gummi, freehanded as even as possible, moderate pressure
- 1500 Grit Diamond on base, light pressure
- 100 Grit diamond on side, light pressure
- 400 Grit diamond on side, moderate/light pressure
- 1500 Grit diamond stone on side, moderate/light pressure
- Gray gummi on base edge, VERY light pressure

I've notived that if you use the fingernail test on the edge in different directions, the edges seem to be different sharpnesses... Fingernail test for nail sliver to be on base edge seems a little duller than fingernail test where sliver will be on side edge.... Makes no sense to me... is this normal?
post #18 of 26
When you use the 100 grit, how does the edge feel? Are you counting strokes with an arbitrary number or changing to the finer stones before the 100 cuts enough for a sharp edge? I've had good luck with predominately a 200, followed by a 400, and de-burr with an Arkansas. Sometimes start with the 100 or file if really nicked.
post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
It seemed like prior to waxing the edge was MUCH sharper... the light run with the gummi at the end made a tremendous difference. Last time, I didn't count strokes, but instead made even laps and listened to the sound... when I had a nice smooth sound, I quit and moved down to the next stone and repeated.
post #20 of 26
can anyone tell me what the difference is between the Razor and the Xact 3 in 1? which is better, easier to use?

also, if I buy either of them, it sounds like I will need to get some diamond stones to complement the included file. which ones on the slidewright site that works best?

thanks in advance
post #21 of 26
Originally Posted by tekweezle View Post
can anyone tell me what the difference is between the Razor and the Xact 3 in 1? which is better, easier to use?

also, if I buy either of them, it sounds like I will need to get some diamond stones to complement the included file. which ones on the slidewright site that works best?

thanks in advance
tek, my guess is that Alpinord will jump in with a more informed answer in short order. But having just asked the identical question a few days ago under another thread, I'll give you a first installment. See posts #17-19 at...
post #22 of 26
....jumping in with a copy & paste :

The Razor (2002TX) and the Xact (T2017) are both capable of multiple angles for base and side edges, along with sidewall cutting. The Razor uses different peg lengths to set the angles, while the Xact uses and asymmetrical angle dial. Both hold any length file or stones for side edges. The Xact only holds the included or comparable short file for base edges, while the Razor can hold any stone or file length, up to 6mm thick. This difference is less of an issue for some than others as the side edge bevel is where you sharpen the most with stones. I haven't had any big issues just using the Swiss file for base edges only. Feel free to give a shout if you have more questions.
Both are easy to use. The Razor has a more solid feel, but the polycarbonate (Lexan) used in both are plenty durable, along with being highly versatile for side wall cutting and scraper sharpening, along with base and side edge work.

Regarding stones, another quote from our FAQ page:

I'm putting together a tuning kit and am confused with all of the choices for files, diamonds stones and guides. Where do I start and what should I buy?
Determining what capabilities or level of tuning you are after will help decide on tuning or other tools. What level tuner are you and want to be; Leisure/Casual, Performance or Serious?.

If you looked at building a tool kit whether it's files, diamonds guides, brushes, waxes, etc as you looked at building your quiver of skis, you wouldn't necessarily get everything you can to start. There are simply too many variables to grasp without time and experience, cost and other considerations. As with skis and other gear, you can always buy more and there are various grades or calibers of tools. For the recreational skier and tuner, getting every one of the finest tools may be overkill and an unnecessary expense. But if you appreciate fine tools, and start out purchasing them, it's hard to go back to lessor caliber as you become spoiled.

For the 'all mountain' capabilities for main files & diamonds which you can build on, we suggest:
1) bastard or 2nd cut file-for edge sharpening, beveling and setting edge geometry, coupled with guide. The coarser the file, the faster the cut and filings stream off easier.
2) panzer/body file-for removal of side wall (edge off-set), quick removal of edge when establishing edge geometry or removing excess base material. Also great for plexi scraper sharpening.
3) 200 or 400 grit diamond-for deburring, maintenance sharpening, finishing and polishing edge
4) aluminum oxide stone-inexpensive 'beater' stone for knocking down case/work hardened edges, deburring, knife sharpening, misc tasks
5) gummy stone-detuning and rust removal
6) base and side edge combination guide-used to secure files, diamonds and stones accurately to set edge geometry (bevel angles) and can be used for maintenance sharpening with diamonds or stones

For starting out and I'd bet for the majority of recreational tuners (and if you'll also need other tools), a Deluxe Tuning Kit or Tuning Station, coupled with a diamond and gummy stone will be more than adequate, can be built upon and is a great value. The 3 in 1 Xact or Razor in our kits are solid and highly versatile. Later, if you decide to purchase more angle specific guides, the 3 in 1s will still be a nice tool to keep handy.
HTH & Thanks for the interest<
post #23 of 26
thanks for the reply and info!

essentially they both do the exact same thing? since the razor is newer, I take it to be the new and improved version? for some reason, the dial seemed more intuitive on the Xact unit. However, the Razor seems to be more versitile.

thanks again.
post #24 of 26
Originally Posted by DKN View Post
tek, my guess is that Alpinord will jump in with a more informed answer in short order.
see... told ya!

Originally Posted by tekweezle View Post
essentially they both do the exact same thing? since the razor is newer, I take it to be the new and improved version? for some reason, the dial seemed more intuitive on the Xact unit. However, the Razor seems to be more versitile.
funny you should say that about the dial, cuz it's what led me to order the Xact. that plus a GREAT discount. but there was something about dial versus movable (losable?) pegs that made me go for the Xact... not a very technologically sophisticated analysis, I realize. whichever way you go, I compared several sources for edging tools, and SlideWright highly recommended.
post #25 of 26
Actually, the Xact with ceramic rollers & 'dial an angle' is the latest generation Tools4Boards multi-tool. The Razor is a skootch more versatile relative to base edges due to files and stone options. The Razor rides on the pegs while the Xact has the rollers.
post #26 of 26
Thread Starter 
Personally, I see the pegs as less that can go wrong... If you are careful, the pegs will not get lost... a Dial on the other hand... seems like there's more that can go wrong.

After some practice, I'm coming up with some sharp sharp edges.... very nice.... Even sharper than when they were new in plastic... This is with a progression of 100 grit, 400 grit, then 1500 grit.... Until they get nicked up, I'll omit the 100 grit. Next season.. that is.... My season is over... not much snow left here in WV.
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