Harb skiing in the bumps, 90's style...(PMTS related) - Page 2

I'll have to disagree with you there. If you want to break it down and show us some side by side evidence to support that claim, it would be interesting or at the very least entertaining.

Hey cj68,

Maybe you can tell me why it is that I like the way Bruno is skiing in the mogul videos posted the other day but am not as big a fan of some of the skiing in that Momentum Ski Camp video. I'm trying to see the differences but am too lazy to really study it closely. I think maybe it's that Bruno's skiing the line a little rounder, slower and in control. Or perhaps the bumps are natural, requiring a different type of line. Any thoughts?

Moguljunkie renounce your name ASAP

There is no such thing as the fast line/ zipperline. It does not exist. Wiggle your skis back and forth???? If you are to lazy to watch the Momentum camp video don't comment. The Momentum video shows ski to snow contact and "carved" turns verse sliding turns.

You stated," But, if I could press a button, I'd like to be able to ski the bumps (whether they're really bumps or not in the video) like Harb"

Skiing bumps is not a 4X4 switch you turn on in your SUV. There is NO different "technique" to skiing bumps then any other terrain. You learn to ski one way and make adjustments based on the terrain but there is one way to ski. Racers ski bumps, bump skiers race, Racers ski trees etc... we all adjust to the terrain but the foundation is the same.

If you want to learn from the best skiers in the world go to skidebosses.com and look up Dale Begg Smith. He carves, he does not slide.
PS look out for the spam viruses when searching for Dale Begg.

<moderator comment>
I've edited Harald Harb's name in a number of posts here, some of which were made in ignorance of the correct spelling of his name, some of which were not. There are places on the 'net where you can toss around insults if you want, but not here. Stop it.
<end moderator comment>

LOL, it certainly doesent sound like you have a clue about filming and producing a skiing video.... the problems with "kids" and video cameras is that they think they know it all.... and do it for nothing.... with outcome of BS.... and put professionals out of work.....

Max,

First unless he's straight lining, of course the skis readirect. The question I asked was how? The answer is, he's roating them, and doing what he's bagged on every PSIA instructor for doing. If I still had access to the other site, I'd pull up 10 posts where he's bagged on folks for doing that.

Do you think I have a copy of that book or am going to read that book? Maybe if they lift my ban, but we know about how much of a chance there is of that happening....

Lonnie, let it go man. Is this like the 200th time this same old tired issue has been dragged out again?

Fan or not, calling it a wiggle is analogous to saying sl racers are just laying them down on the rails. Both lose sight of techniques and skills involved.

In addition, those are bumps, but imo, its what I say skiing with some bumps around, not bump skiing nor mogul skiing. It still doesn't take away from the fact that it was excellent skiing.

If we look at FIS bump skiers they sertainly do not wiggle down in the zipperline. They are incredibly strong skiers and they slam down icy bumps in the fall line with speed that would make us mere mortals faint, fall, die and go to heaven.

The discussion regarding the size of the bumps is totally lame. Big bumps or small bumps doesent matter, they are still bumps. When I teach bumps or moguls I actually start my lessons on flat groomers. Then I try to find a place with only one bump to practice on before moving into small bumps on the outskirts of a mogul run. I think that HH is doing a great job at showing how to ski bumps. Many here have even whished they could ski bumps like HH, that should tell us that his message has reached through barriers of BS in threads like this.

Bump size, how many and how close they are does matter. As I stated before, it was excellent skiing around some bumps. But I wish there could have been more bumps or in tighter formation to call it bump skiing.

And no, I don't think we have reached the BS barrier but stating something that it is not is BS.

I think it's the 2000th....

HS, why do you continue to show your iqnorance? you say your "system" of skiing is better than PMTS and PSIA. If it really is, why not get high lvl instruction in both, and prove it.

I have no doubt that HH could outski you anytime any where. the same goes for Weems, Bob barnes or any of the instructors from the ESA events.

You may be a good skier. You most likly are a much better skier than me, and i hope you are.

If you really think you are better than everyone else, then travelling to other peoples home turf and showing them up, should be a no brainer.

Kevin

Im ISIA affiliated myselfe but think that PMTS is more similair to my kind of skiing than PSIA.

Funny thing about HS, Mr. innovator, aka The Greatest(move aside Ali), in his little video of his new skiing style, the terrain looked like a ungroomed green run. However, HS assured us that the snow was unskiable for mere mortals and it was really steep.

Now he is criticizing HH's video. Pot calling the kettle black?

IMO, Bruno is skiing like a top notch mere mortal but there are limitations that come with being a mere mortal (believe me, I know). The bumps we were skiing in Bruno's video were deep, and yes, skier made. However, that doesn't really matter, because the quality of the bumps at MJ are similar to manmade bumps, but they are really deep and tight most of the time... most of the lines at that place are perfect. If you were to see Bobby Aldigheri or Chuck Martin ski those same lines (those were our 2 coaches that weekend), you would see a more direct line and A LOT more speed... much more typical of the WC caliber (and downright hair raising ).

Why the difference? Proficiency. Chuck and Bobby are ex-olympians and you cannot compare their skiing level to any of the campers that they coach. Same for the guys in the Momentum video... most are current or former WC skiers.

My guess is the reason you like Bruno's skiing more is because it seems more attainable. The same way that a lot of folks like HHs "mogul" skiing... it seems attainable. Unfortunately, I think this leads to a lot of mystery behind mogul skiing in the eyes of the skiing public, as is proven by the endless myths and excuses of why "I" can't do it that way. I just love the way people bash something they know very little about (btw, this is not directed at anyone in particular)..

Skiing like a WC skier on a course or even freeskiing is not attainable unless you are very young and willing to devote the first half of your life to mogul skiing (which also means A LOT of coaching). Most decent to good mere mortal bump skiers have had coaching from competent coaches that apply the same techniques used on the WC. That said, Bruno is utilizing the techniques tought to him by ML to the best of his current ability (and pretty damn well I might add). He is not really doing something different or skiing a rounder line... he is skiing the same line, just not as direct as the pros or top level amateur competitors.

Furthermore, for the purposes of coaching, ML uses a computer program that compares the camper to a WC skiers. This enables the mere mortal to see what he/she is doing (somewhat) right and what they are doing wrong, when compared to a guy line DBS or Janne. The real purpose of this tool is to lead the skier toward better improving their weaknesses by seeing how "we" do it and how the pros do it. When you see this in person, you really realize how technically superior the pros are, and why they ski the way they do. Everything we do at the camps is modeled after WC level coaching, no matter what level you are, period. Some of the newer skiers have to work on their basics on the flats, but we all do the same drills that the WC guys do and work on the same concepts.

And believe me, the guys in those videos are in total control... just don't cut them off when they are skiing 30-35 mph. The reason that they rip like that is not because they are daredevils, but because they are technically so good that they can ski that fast on terrain that 90% of the skiers out there would completely flail on. There is so much going on technically in there skiing that it sometimes makes my head spin.

Now, maybe if there is enough interest, we can have a technical discussion amongst the forum members (from an amateur perspective of course) on what makes the WCers so good.

Hope that answers your question.

cj

I have to agree with you on this part "If we look at FIS bump skiers they sertainly do not wiggle down in the zipperline. They are incredibly strong skiers and they slam down icy bumps in the fall line with speed that would make us mere mortals faint, fall, die and go to heaven".

However, "they slam down icy bumps in the fall line" should be followed by "in competition". The lines that the WCers ski in competition require max speed because of the current level of competition. Furthermore, the bumps on WC competition courses are shaped more sharply than most and it is pretty much a game of absorbtion and contouring the backside of the bump, as this produces more speed (this is not my own theory, but insight that I got from one of the top coaches in the world today). But if you watch DBS, be skis with very little impact. There is a very good technical reason for this that most "coached" mogul skiers understand. This would also be another good topic for discussion if some forum members are really interested in mogul skiing.

Now if you were to see any of the WCers ski in the summer up at the BC glacier or at MJ, they typically ski with more ski to snow contact (particularly on the backside/downhill of the mogul) than when in competition, simply because they don't need the extra speed.

Also, I am curious to know what you teach as stated in "When I teach bumps or moguls I actually start my lessons on flat groomers". Simply because that is how every camp I have been to has been started off in the am. Do you do any of the following: mogul wedges, javelins, off hand drive slides, window frames, nose press turns, u shaped/containment turns, lead change and knee roll turns, skiing with poles across the top of the wrists or no poles, skiing with boots unbuckled, turning in a low absorbed position, etc?

I also submit to you that the size of the bumps do matter as does tightness, simply because it is easier to get away with bad technique in easier bumps.

cj

Thanks, cj, for the response. I know it's a gross exaggeration to say these great bump skiers are just wiggling through the bumps. It's a craft that takes a LONG time to master.

Still, I'm not sure it's unappealing to me because its unattainable. Maybe it's because they make it look too easy. Or maybe it's the aesthetic look of them seemingly going straight down the fall line in a crouch while holding onto their little mini-poles. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people love to watch Eddie Van Halen shred a guitar. Personally, though I appreciate the virtuosity, I'd much rather listen to the simpler guitar playing of Neil Young.

I'd really like to see one of these top-notch bumpers on Redline at Magic or Chute at MRG or one of Stowe's bump runs. Not that I think they'd flail, but I think I would appreciate their technique more when they would be forced, I think, to slow down a little and make more pronounced turns.

Again you have difficulty with comprehension. :

I was not impressed with your little clip. I have to take your word for how difficult it was, as opposed to believing what my eyes see. With HH video, you downplayed the difficulty and did not accept that the terrain was more difficult than it looked.

Are you the pot or the kettle?

I have skied good snow and bad. I understand the difference.

HS,

Is there a single person who, having compared your videos with HH's video, would say that you are a better skier? I very much doubt it.

This does not mean that you could not hang with him, but it does mean that you skiing technique is somewhat inferior. Surely you can understand that. There are plenty of "extreme skiers" out there who are great skiers, but don't have the polish of a HH. And they don't need that polish to do what they do.

Just curious but who is this Harald Harb character anyway and why is he seemingly worshiped on this site. I'll grant the guy is a damn strong skier but I don't get it?

By the way, as far as Highway Star's callout's I think it' shameful none (or very few) of these PMTS or PSIA types have taken him up on this. IMO he'd wipe the floor with most of them and that's exactly why it's SO silent.

HS, why don't you call out Ingemar Stenmark, Phil Mahre, Tomba, Miller, Raich ...

When they all ignore you, you can claim that it proves you are a better skier.

I find your preoccupation with other people's skiing pretty pathetic.

You're acting like a petulant 15 year old with something to prove.

Please, for the benefit of all of us, quit behaving like an immature child.

the youtube video keeps hanging on me, at around 17 secs

Out of curiosity, where is this clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVsV2EFvDkM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwt1bDdiUjw