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post #61 of 96

I appreciate your response; I really wasn't sure what your answer would be (among the choices). I used to smoke (1 pack/day for 5 years, quit January 1998), and don't like sitting around it much either. Your wife does noble work. Thanks again for the response.

Now, I'm not so sure about likening the extralegal campaign against smoking to the civil rights movement, but each of us has our passions.

Pray for snow, and enjoy the winter in Vermont; Colorado is just beginning to shape up.
post #62 of 96
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomB:
After all 5 minutes of smoke will not kill you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tend to disagree. If 5 minutes is non-threatening, how about just 5 minutes, once every hour? Every hour of every day?

In my humble opinion, any smoke is more smoke than I've asked for. I really don't want my suit reeking after a ride up the lift. Kinda spoils the sensation of the cool mountain air.

And worst of all, don't you hate it when the cute ski bunny next to you on the lift shoves a 'cancer stick' in her mouth just as you're looking over to say hello? Complete turn-off.

But I digress.
post #63 of 96
Be the bigger man (or woman), ignore them and enjoy the snow
post #64 of 96
Oh, I do apologize for this, skiswift, but . . . just one more thing. It's about consigning the First Amendment to the srap heap, as you suggested I have done. During three years of law school and thirty-five years of law practice, including both public sector and private sector, I've thought long and hard about what are the permissible limitations of speech. In fact, we all know that not all speech is protected - shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, when there is no fire, is not protected. Relating state secrets to a foreign power is not protected. Encouraging the commission of a crime is not protected. Libel and slander are not protected. So why is it that advocating the elimination of an entire race of people should be protected? What possible reason could one have for agreeing that it is NOT a violation of the First Amendment to bar libel, slander and the encouragement of a crime, but it IS a violation of the First Amendment to bar someone from saying that African Americans should be exported or killed? I don't get it. In my long considered legal opinion, the word "liberalism" has been blemished and dishonored by "knee jerk", politcally correct wholesale protection of ALL speech including the kind of horrid, hateful speech to which I have referred above. If the First Amendment is interpreted to be consistent with what I've written here, I'm in favor of it - and if not, in all candor, I'm opposed.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 29, 2001 06:22 PM: Message edited 1 time, by oboe ]</font>
post #65 of 96
Oboe-certain speech which has been defined at both the Federal and State level as 'hate speech' is obviously , by legislation, illegal. Hence, your reference to African American hate speech is already punishable.
The only question that I have about restricting certain speech is "Who decides?".
post #66 of 96
Its not just the smokers. What really offends me is seeing all those people at the grocery store buying red meat, beer, wine, (even the hard stuff), sugar coated cereal, fritos and other junk artery clogging foods. They all contribute to serious coronary problems, diabetes and other loathsome diseases.

Red meaat eaters and junk food junkies also make me and you pay more for health insurance even though we don't eat that garbage. Plus alcohol really stinks. Ever been stuck in an elevator with someone who has been drinking. Since they have already been drinking you can't stop the stench until that person or you leaves the elevator.

Even one drink can affect a driver's ability to safely opperate a vehicle. Alcohol certainly kills or maims even more innocents than tobacco kills on a ski lift.

Maybe we should close all bars and instead that gov't. ration coupons issued only for the equivilent of one glass of wine per day. (Opps. I think we tried something like that once but it didn't work too well).

Along with outlawing liquor and tobacco should we also prohibit the sale of red meat, colas, potato chips and all the other junk foods that are responsible for most early deaths and contribute so much to the escalating costs of health care insurance.

I am not thrilled with people who light up when I'm around. If I am really bothered by the smoke I just let the person know without a lot of hassle. I've found that I don't need to make a fedreal case over it or even ask the legislature to pass law.

You know what? I've never been refused. And I've even learned to tolerate those folks in the check out line with their cases of Bud, Bags of chips and rib eye steaks- but barely.
post #67 of 96
ok, skiswift, not that you have it right, or anything, but you're sitting within ten miles of this computer - so if you'd like, please e-mail me: bg@vtlink.net Maybe we can make a few smoke free runs at Smuggs or Bolton [or even JAY!]. Lost boy? If they smoke, drink, eat read meat, whatever, I do not expect or intend to outlaw their conduct - I just don't want it done on me. The odor of a really serious drinker can, indeed, be overpowering, but it doesn't cling like glue to my clothing and it doesn't get crap into my lungs. Like you, I have found that, in the vast majority of cases, asking that the person not to smoke on the chairlift is enough. In cases where someone who smokes wants to make an issue of it, I also will make an issue of it. My intention is not to bar others from their preferences but only to keep their crap off me. The vast majority of smokers these days will respect that. Those who don't, deserve [in my own opinion, for which I have the most profound respect] whatever I can dish out. You know, under most other circumstances, I can be quite accomodating and genial. I just hate smoking so much that it brings out the absolute most viscious in me. And at my age, that really improves my circulation. I really love to vent on this stuff - and I am very grateful to all those posting here who have provided that opportunity.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 29, 2001 08:46 PM: Message edited 1 time, by oboe ]</font>
post #68 of 96
What about the people who eat garlic for breakfast then ride the Whistler Gondola????

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 29, 2001 09:06 PM: Message edited 2 times, by Lisamarie ]</font>
post #69 of 96
Okay, okay,

Let me get my sad a** in on this one. I'm feelin' froggy and downright mean here at 0'dark thirty in the morning!!

I don't buy into all the bullcrap the non-smokers are spewing about how pathetic and assuming (all) smokers are. Sure, there are those out there who will be an arse about it. But then again there are SLEWS of NON-smokers who are an arse as they drive '''themselves only''' to the slopes in an Excursion burning up five gallons per mile. All the time spewing muck in the air for the poor elk to choke on while at the same time they run down the tree rat trying to make it back across the road to feed his little rat family hangin' out in the tree. They are snide in their driving, egotistical and self-centered in their attitude. They think, for some reason, that they are above and better than others. They are oblivious to the gross damage they do EVERY day to the ENTIRE planet yet they cry like babies when someone else excercises what remains of their personal freedoms. Like I said in a previous post, they forget that death makes us all equal.

Whew!!! Got that off my chest!

Maybe I'm just an unusual smoker (but I only smoke about 1 to 2 cigarettes a day on the average. Strange, but I can't stand smoke in my face. Can't stand it to get on my clothes. Can't stand a house or a car that smells like it. I never smoke in my house and if I do in my car the window is ALL the way down no matter how cold it is. I would NEVER light up around my children and force them to breath the disgusting bunk either. However I will still light one up and for some weird reason actually enjoy it. Lucky for me I don't have an addictive nature or the paint sniffin' would have killed me years ago (just kiddin' on that one guys!!)

What's the BIG DIFFERENCE??? I will ASK before I light one up. Smokers, . . .why don't you learn a thing or two from that because it peeves me too when you're assuming and decide to light one up on the lift for my son or daughter to have to breath.

Anyway, back to bashing some of the egotistical, "let's try and trample on others because we think we're better" non-smokers. . . . Don't go around lumping all smokers into one category just because you're self-righteous, assuming and have a need to bolster your shallow ego.
post #70 of 96
Canuck: You misunderstood what I getting at with TomB. I said the harmful effects of a ski pole through the chest are far worse than 5 minutes of second hand smoke, meaning if you think someone is going to be hostile, avoid the risk of getting involved in something that could get ugly.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 30, 2001 07:28 AM: Message edited 3 times, by rikswan ]</font>
post #71 of 96
At this point, while I am not regretting the general priciples I addressed, I do regret that the tone I took has done more harm than good - I should put myself in the place of the reader who does not know me before I spout off. I certainly have not lumped all smokers together - although I do lump all tobacco smoke together! Many decent people who smoke are very polite and always ask if I mind, and they withhold smoking if I say I do mind. However, a smoker who has disdain for non-smokers near him or her or in the area of the smoke is not a person for whom I can feel much empathy. Whether its tobacco smoke or coffee or dog poop, whether it's legal or not legal, the principle is the same: It behoves all of us to keep our jetsom off others, and failure or refusal to do so is . . . well . . . BAD!

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 30, 2001 07:57 AM: Message edited 1 time, by oboe ]</font>
post #72 of 96
Smoking is not illegal on a chairlift, actually it might be here in Utah, everything else is (well at least the fun stuff). As a nonsmoker, I really don't care if somebody lights up next to me on a lift, I just appreciate it if they ask first (please watch the coat). However, littering is illegal! Smokers, PLEASE DO NOT THROW YOUR BUTTS OFF THE LIFTS ONTO THE GROUND!!! Of all my years of skiing, I have never seen a smoker dispose of a butt properly at a ski area. I have hiked lift lines in the summer and have seen thousands of your butts, its kind of disturbing in a national forest. Also, when you throw them in the summer (yes at some resorts you can ride the lifts in the summer) you run the risk of starting a forest fire. This risk is very high in the Western Mountains, so please keep this in mind. I've driven to work many times since moving to Utah a year ago seeing the fire department putting out a fire near the road from somebody carelessly tossing a butt out the window. It doesn't take much to dispose of them properly and save 1000's of acres from being destroyed. Something to think about. Rant over, sorry...
post #73 of 96
For the record I really enjoy your posts on skiing. I have to confess though that I was a little surprised at your passion and tone on this particular subject. I think your last post put the whole subject in a better perspective. Thanks. [img]smile.gif[/img]


I totally agree with you. Butts and also candy wrappers, soda, beer cans and other such garbage found mostly underneath chair lifts really mars the beauty of a ski area. An occasional dropped glove or pole is understandable. At most ski areas that's all I see.

But there are a few areas, Northstar at Tahoe sticks in my mind as the worst offender, where if you look down from the lift you would think you've been following a garbage truck (okay, that is an exaggeration but you get the idea).

I guess while we are on the subject of appropriate conduct at a ski area, not littering should be on the list of basic curtesies for all skiers to do their best to observe.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ November 30, 2001 01:33 PM: Message edited 1 time, by Lostboy ]</font>
post #74 of 96
Ha ha ha!

5 days smokeless and counting!

I can smell my breath, I can taste the food I eat... I can even smell my stinky feet! (eeeeyyyuuuuuuuhhhh...)

I know it's not finished (and like most addictions, never will be) but the worst of the first challenge is past...

I think I can, I think I can...

post #75 of 96
23 days and counting, no butts...

What I'm coughing up is reason enough to keep me smoke free.... Ugh....
post #76 of 96
Oh My GOD, can this place get hot. I have read through all of the post on this subject, and all I can say is aren't we blessed to live in America. Where we all have the right to peacefully blow off steam and let people know how we feel about a subject. And since I put in my time serving this country, to help each of us to have that right. Which was during a period in our history when you oft times served wheather you wanted to or not. And I have had to say goodbye to several buddies that were doing the same thing. I can say this much about smoking on the lift. If you do, just don't blow your smoke in my face or the face of any of those I Love. Enough said. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #77 of 96
Oboe????? . . . . . "Behooves" ? ? ? Damn, haven't heard that since the last time I was in Alabama!!!!

Love that though, It's my favorite thing to say to my kids!!! "I won't make you do it, but it would BEHOOVE you to do so"

Doc told me as long as I'm weird and don't smoke more than a couple a day not to worry about it. Living and working in and near Denver was doing more damage to me than the two cigarettes were.

Hopefully though my wife will cut down. I've got her down to less than half a pack a day with the goal of her being smoke free by '02. I'll stop for the simple reason of not having it around to tempt her.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 05, 2001 10:03 AM: Message edited 1 time, by ski2xs ]</font>
post #78 of 96
Actually, skis2xs [but doesn't smoke2xs], I knew of a horse once who was behooved - had to walk around on his tip toes. I myself once was behooved - by my wife, I think I recall, and she also dehorned me. Keeps coming back, though, so I'm as horny and hooving as ever. Must be the reason for all that feist I posted above. But seriously, folks, this is a "hate the sin, love the sinner" kind of thing, until the sinner sins his tobacco smoke on YOU - then it's different, and you got to tell the sinner to stop it, but it's better when the sinner waits 'till you're out of range before lighting up. A cigarette, I mean.
post #79 of 96
I heard of an excellent response to rude smokers. I had a friend who politely asked someone not to smoke. The person blew smoke in his face. My friend then picked his nose and wiped it on the smokers shirt. Almost started a fight but I think he made his point.
post #80 of 96
I went skiing yesterday and saw a number of ppl smoking all over the hill. I must admit it seems like such a strange combination to me - aerobic nature loving sport and lung clogging, nature polluting habit.

I don't get it but I guess that is what an addiction is - something you do beyond common sense.
post #81 of 96
I once worked at a bike shop when a "biker" came in and asked for a cigerette (I don't even know how to spell it) pack for his bike. He told me that he saw somebody riding with one on the trail and he liked it. I showed him all the bags for under the seat/handlebars/frame that we had. He said that the one he saw was made for smokes, and none of ours would work. I told him to check Marboro Gear, most bikers don't smoke.
post #82 of 96
Skiing is about freedom. The amount of smoke you inhale second hand in the open air, as some people have said, is miniscule. Considerably less than you take in every day if you live in an urban area. The main point is that you're out to enjoy yourself, and even if you win the little confrontation it will probably take the edge of your day, if you lose it could ruin it. Life's too short, it's even shorter for smokers, let them get on with it and instead try and engage them in conversation. Maybe you'll learn something that will make your day, or even your life, much better.

If they drop the butt off the lift however, that's a whole different matter. Kick the f**cker off after it.
post #83 of 96
Skiing is about freedom. The amount of smoke you inhale second hand in the open air, as some people have said, is miniscule. Considerably less than you take in every day if you live in an urban area. The main point is that you're out to enjoy yourself, and even if you win the little confrontation it will probably take the edge of your day, if you lose it could ruin it. Life's too short, it's even shorter for smokers, let them get on with it and instead try and engage them in conversation. Maybe you'll learn something that will make your day, or even your life, much better.

If they drop the butt off the lift however, that's a whole different matter. Kick the f**cker off after it.
post #84 of 96
[quote]Originally posted by BillH:
[QB]You are enjoying a day in the fresh clean outdoors when the person next to you in the lift line or sitting next to you on the chair lights up a cancer stick.

I would choose(and have) the indirect approach since smoking(most substances) is not a crime. I try to alter(bring up) the subject ... somewhere along the lines of how nice it is to be outside and how nice it is to experience the outdoors and to to just be ' HERE '...how nice the view is...the smell of the woods/the pines. Use the guilt trip approach I guess...Most decent/courteous/respectful individuals will catch onto your disdain...If not consider yourself lucky to be a better person [img]tongue.gif[/img] : ...just be glad to know it disgusts you.
post #85 of 96
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> ...Most decent/courteous/respectful individuals will catch onto your disdain...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello? You are forgetting that *most* smokers are just a little dumber than the rest of society. That kind of subtlety would go right over their polluted little heads. Even if they did understand what you’re hinting at, they probably wouldn’t give a damn anyway. I’m sure that *many* smokers really think that their habit is “cool” and anyone lame enough to complain just isn’t with it. I know most smokers start just to get attention and show off anyway. If they weren't so stupid then they wouldn't be smokers in the first place. *Most* decent, courteous respectful and intelligent individuals wouldn't be doing this so it affects you!
post #86 of 96
^^^^ ouch...that hurts ^^^^^^..you're not stereotyping now are ya.

Yer right...so then just consider yourself lucky????

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 10, 2001 12:52 PM: Message edited 1 time, by snert89 ]</font>
post #87 of 96
Geoff -
Your attitude sucks... I resent what you have to say, and if I were still a smoker, I would blow my second hand smoke in your face.

Dumber? Better have a look in the mirror, a**hole.
post #88 of 96
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikla:
Geoff -
Your attitude sucks... I resent what you have to say, and if I were still a smoker, I would blow my second hand smoke in your face.

Dumber? Better have a look in the mirror, a**hole.

Thanks Mikla....My Dad smoked 3 packs a day for 35 yrs...he shuttled me around from games to practices to trips to wherever...I have to say I am surprised I didn't become one myself...its because of this I have learned its repulse.

Bravo on your quest for a smoke free lifestyle......Keep us posted. I know old habits are hard to break. It wasn't 'til Dad had to have triple bypass that he went cold turkey......IT CAN BE DONE!!!!!...good luck!!!
post #89 of 96
Thanks for the encouragement, snert89. I am 14 days into the process and doing ok so far. I do have moments of intense craving when someone close by lights up, but refuse to give in...

I have changed my "self-talk" routine from what it was in the past. I refuse to say that I want a smoke, replacing it now with I don't want a cigarette. People around me who smoke are being extremely considerate (the ones who know I am in process of breaking the addiction).

Yesterday I skied long and hard in the fresh at Snow-qualmie and for the first time I could tell the difference in my breathing... It's nice to be smoke free.
post #90 of 96
Whoa!! this topic is really freaking some people out! Cool! I think smoking is fine, but it is pretty inconsiderate to smoking within a short proximity to others (ie chairlift)because second hand smoke is a health threat and is just rude in my eyes. I think that you should reserve the right to ask someone to put out the cigarette on the chair or in line. That seems fair and I think most smokers would unerstand, maybe. But smoking Marajuana on the chair, thats OK right!?
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